The flowchart to figure out your favorite baseball team is hilarious. The funny part is I am one away from actually being an Indians fan. Guess I am a Braves fan now.
This is a genuine question: How did they “catch” Davies? I don’t feel sorry for him in the least but because he signed/took/whatever the honor code and decided the university rules were not as important as his short-term desires. But seriously – how do they catch you breaking the honor code???
Crossword Petesays
So BYU finds that the old myth “sports is bad for athletes” is actually true! Are they really that clean in Mormon country? Sounds like Davies was afflicted by guilt usually only reserved for us Catholics or Jews. Btw, when I first saw the last name in the headline I was thinking “Boob Davies” (no pun intended in retrospect). One can only hope!
Rey, my favorite part was “What’s in the thermos?”
IC Light – Pirates
Skinny Latte, no foam – Mariners
Gravy – Royals
Regarding Davies, I heard on sports radio this morning that his girlfriend is pregnant. I don’t know if the guy’s mormon or not, but if he’s not, why the heck would he go to BYU? I heard he also had offers from Arizona, Cal and Gonzaga.
I don’t have a soul, Casey and Smitty are chowder heads, Wally punches people in the neck, Rey’s a racist from Cleveland, and Pete…geez, Pete, I don’t even know…what team do you root for? Maybe you should let the flowchart decide. 🙂
Ahhhh – pregnancy. Duh! I guess that it is easy to catch. And I suppose some honesty came from Davies’ way because he could have denied that it was his girlfriend and child. Then if that would have happened, I think BYU’s AD and Davies should have gone on Maury Povich and did that whole paternity test/show they do. THAT would have been awesome.
Last week it was appliances. This week it is a bearing of souls. You never know what you’ll find on the Pine.
Wallysays
Rey … no worries … I know other Indians fans not from Cleveland. I question their judgment, but oh well.
RE: the BYU player dismissal …. all I can ask is this: “How in the @$&*!$% did Jim McMahon … yes, the punky QB … make it through BYU without getting tossed out?????” That has to be the 9th wonder of the world. Are we on #9?
Oh … and if she wasn’t pregnant, don’t rule out other students squealing on him … a jealous former GF, etc. That happens all the time.
Now who did I punch in the neck? I’ve wanted to punch Casey and Smitty at times, but never actually did it.
Crossword Petesays
Chas, at my age many things flow, but they don’t usually end up at the team I root for. Rey, are there any Indians fans IN Cleveland? For the record, I only root for ND. My pro sports fandom is a part of ancient history.
Rey, I know you’re not from Cleveland. I was just using the flow chart in reverse. That is, determining who you are based on who you root for.
Wally, I also heard that BYU tried to prevent McMahon from breaking some of Marc Wilson’s records late in his career there, but that was because he isn’t Mormon. Yeah, I don’t know how he avoided trouble.
The “punch in the neck” comment was based on the “What baseball team should you root for?” link in my first comment in this thread. Check it out to understand what I was talking about.
All you guys from Rochester, I think I’ve asked this before, but who the heck are you guys supposed to root for? Besides the Bills and Syracuse University, of course? You’re like 3 hours from Toronto and 4+ hours from Cleveland and Pittsburgh, right? Doesn’t give you a lot of excellent choices.
Wallysays
I think they tend to root for the Baltimore Orioles b/c the Rochester Red Wings have been the AAA feeder to Baltimore for decades. Of course, being an Orioles backer these days really sux. But I have met TONS of Yankmee fans on my trips there.
Heck … Rochester fans are like true free agents … they can go root for whoever they feel like. For instance, Smitty used to be a huge Dallas Cowboys fan until he suddenly spent time in Boston and adopted the NE Hoodies.
Crossword Petesays
Bills dominate NFL fans in Rochester, but there are big chapters for Browns and Steelers. As to MLB, I would guess that the free agency to which Wally refers leads to many NYY and BoSox fans, but as he noted many follow the Orioles and many old timers follow the Cards for similar reasons (they were the parent club to the Red Wings before Baltimore). I know in nearby communities like Mt Morris and Geneseo groups still gather at bars to talk and follow the Cards (and drink too). the Sabers might be the closest major league team to be consisdered “Rochester”. No one competes with SU on a college level, but you either love ’em or hate ’em. The haters don’t usually have a favorite except for who SU is playing that night. The closest you find to competition for SU is ND and to some degree PSU. As I said in an earlier post, Rochester is the “best minor league sports town” in the country. We are nomads or free agents when it comes to major league professional sports.
Yep..Used to be a Cowboys fan.. I was upset with the way Jerry Jones fired Tom Landry and then I was officially off the wagon when Barry Switzer was hired. Moved to Boston and started following the Patriots – when Pete Carroll was the coach. Enough said.
So I tried to access the flowchart and got “Forbidden File” . What does that say about me as a sports fan?? 🙂
So earlier in the week, Duke Snider passed away. Chas, I am not sure we ever did anything on centerfielders, but where does Duke Snider fall in that category? Top 5? Top 10?
I think he is easily in the Top 10 – Mays, Cobb, Mantle, Griffey Jr., Speaker Dimaggio and then who else?
Smitty, Duke Snider would definitely be in the top 10, but not the top 5. Honestly, after the 8 best CFers in the Hall of Fame, most of the rest of them are nowhere near as iconic. Not counting the Negro Leaguers, who I really don’t know enough about to say. This would roughly be my list:
1. Willie Mays
2. Ty Cobb
3. Mickey Mantle
4. Joe DiMaggio
5. Tris Speaker
6. Ken Griffey Jr.
7. Oscar Charleston
8. Duke Snider
9. Billy Hamilton
10. Jim Edmonds
Like I said, I don’t really know enough about the Negro Leaguers, but I had to slot Oscar Charleston in somewhere based on everything I’ve read about how good he was. He probably should be higher on the list, but I need statistics for comparison purposes, and unfortunately we don’t have them.
Casey, it’s a pretty big dropoff after that, though.
If Snider could have maintained that performance, he’d be higher up, but he wasn’t nearly the player for the Los Angeles Dodgers that he was for the Brooklyn Dodgers. He was the Duke of Flatbush, but not the Duke of Hollywood.
Got that chart yesterday, pretty funny, took me straight to the Mets, so that’s all I needed to know. Here’s a link that works -https://cdn3.sbnation.com/imported_assets/666055/ibd_baseball_flowchart.jpg
Sometimes it feels that way, Chas. Being a Mets fan is like buying a ticket to Misery town. The bright spot is they win the big dance every 30 years or so. And unlike Yankee fans, I have a soul.
Wallysays
Misery? Try being a Cubs fan, Bill.
Hey, ANYONE can have a bad century!
Wallysays
The Duke Snider discussion got me thinking, so here’s a soft toss to Chas and maybe some of you other SABR metric guys:
Who are the Top 10 most productive offensive players in the history of MLB, regardless of position?
Thought I’d start you on your weekend with an easy one 😉
Good question, Wally, although you’re right…on some level it’s an easy one, although ranking them will still require some tough decisions. Let me get back to you on that one.
bill ribassays
Cubs are a tough team to pull for, I’ll give you that. I balance out the year with being a Rangers fan, who, like the Mets, have suffered numerous injuries this year, and any promise looks like it is burning out. So I basically suffer year round.
Top ten most productive offensive players in MLB history. My list would probably look something like this:
1. Babe Ruth
2. Barry Bonds
3. Ted Williams
4. Lou Gehrig
5. Ty Cobb
6. Stan Musial
7. Rogers Hornsby
8. Jimmie Foxx
9. Mickey Mantle
10. Hank Aaron/Willie Mays
Maybe I should do a post on this?
Wallysays
Very interesting, Chas. Thanks for posting this. I’m a little surprised that Ruth still beats out Bonds (PEDs and all), but happy to acknowledge so. So is this based on SABR metrics or what is the basis? Also, is this based on per season averages or careers in total?
I was thinking Ted Williams might be #1 if the ranking were based more on per season averages.
What value is Runs Scored in this equation? (Looking for Rickey Henderson … where does he rank?). I’m surprised there is nobody other than Bonds representing the post Mays/Aaron time period. Was this eval basis adjusted for era?
Babe Ruth was a friggin’ stud, wasn’t he? Didn’t look terribly athletic in the uniform, but he terrorized pitchers like no other hitter.
If you were kind enough to do a separate post, I’d certainly find it interesting.
Good questions, Wally. I’ll do a post and go into more detail, and my results might be a little different since I’ll be giving this exercise the analysis it deserves.
I’ll try to answer your general questions briefly, though. I looked at a couple total player valuation metrics that are strictly based on offense. Yes, they’re era and park adjusted and all. I looked at both cumulative numbers and rate stats, but put a little more emphasis on the cumulative. That’s why Albert Pujols didn’t make the list.
Rickey would probably make the top 20.
Bonds actual rates a little better than Ruth in the cumulative stats, but falls short of both Ruth and Williams in the rate stats. Ruth scores high in both cumulative and rate stats, so that’s why I have him at the top.
I was a little surprised that Bonds’s baserunning didn’t nudge him ahead of Ruth. I’ll take a closer look at this when I do a more detailed analysis.
Wallysays
I just love it when bad things happen to stupid people … not life-threatening things … just enough bad to make them miserable. Case in point: Tiki Barber. I hope nobody gives this guy a look. Let him stew in debt !!! Read below.
————————————————————————————————
SI.com reports: Former New York Giants running back Tiki Barber plans to come out of retirement and play in 2011, sources close to Barber said Tuesday. The agency that represents Barber confirmed the report on its Twitter account.
Barber filed paperwork to the NFL so that the Giants can relinquish his rights and allow him to explore free agency. Barber, who turns 36 in April, retired in 2007 after 10 seasons and is the Giants’ all-time leading rusher. Barber reportedly left his wife of 11 years, Ginny, for a 23-year-old former NBC intern and lost his job with the network. The New York Post reported last June that Barber was broke and couldn’t pay his divorce settlement.
Loyal readers, here is your chance to get the discussion going. Let us know what is on your mind. Today is a great day for the Pine!
What should we talk about today?
The BYU honor code and Brandon Davies: https://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory?id=13044863
This really clever flowchart which looks to answer the question: What baseball team should I root for? https://www.interpretationbydesign.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/IBD_baseball_flowchart.jpg
Jim Caple’s experience at umpire school: https://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=caple_jim&id=6161420
John Henry being fined a half billion dollars by MLB for telling the truth (warning: this is a link to a Yankees blog, but it’s a post defending Henry): https://itsaboutthemoney.net/archives/2011/03/02/expensive-truth/
A half million, that is. Henry was fined $500,000.
Just followed the link to the Yankees’ site – feel kinda dirty. 🙂
That’s why I warned you, Casey. 🙂
The flowchart to figure out your favorite baseball team is hilarious. The funny part is I am one away from actually being an Indians fan. Guess I am a Braves fan now.
This is a genuine question: How did they “catch” Davies? I don’t feel sorry for him in the least but because he signed/took/whatever the honor code and decided the university rules were not as important as his short-term desires. But seriously – how do they catch you breaking the honor code???
So BYU finds that the old myth “sports is bad for athletes” is actually true! Are they really that clean in Mormon country? Sounds like Davies was afflicted by guilt usually only reserved for us Catholics or Jews. Btw, when I first saw the last name in the headline I was thinking “Boob Davies” (no pun intended in retrospect). One can only hope!
Rey, my favorite part was “What’s in the thermos?”
IC Light – Pirates
Skinny Latte, no foam – Mariners
Gravy – Royals
Regarding Davies, I heard on sports radio this morning that his girlfriend is pregnant. I don’t know if the guy’s mormon or not, but if he’s not, why the heck would he go to BYU? I heard he also had offers from Arizona, Cal and Gonzaga.
Chas – you don’t have a soul? 🙂
There is no way I could get to the BoSox through that chart.
Yup, I’ll admit it.
I don’t have a soul, Casey and Smitty are chowder heads, Wally punches people in the neck, Rey’s a racist from Cleveland, and Pete…geez, Pete, I don’t even know…what team do you root for? Maybe you should let the flowchart decide. 🙂
Sorry…chowda heads.
Correction: I’m a racist from Rochester.
Ahhhh – pregnancy. Duh! I guess that it is easy to catch. And I suppose some honesty came from Davies’ way because he could have denied that it was his girlfriend and child. Then if that would have happened, I think BYU’s AD and Davies should have gone on Maury Povich and did that whole paternity test/show they do. THAT would have been awesome.
Maybe I’m the only Indians fan on the planet who does not hail from Cleveland.
Last week it was appliances. This week it is a bearing of souls. You never know what you’ll find on the Pine.
Rey … no worries … I know other Indians fans not from Cleveland. I question their judgment, but oh well.
RE: the BYU player dismissal …. all I can ask is this: “How in the @$&*!$% did Jim McMahon … yes, the punky QB … make it through BYU without getting tossed out?????” That has to be the 9th wonder of the world. Are we on #9?
Oh … and if she wasn’t pregnant, don’t rule out other students squealing on him … a jealous former GF, etc. That happens all the time.
Now who did I punch in the neck? I’ve wanted to punch Casey and Smitty at times, but never actually did it.
Chas, at my age many things flow, but they don’t usually end up at the team I root for. Rey, are there any Indians fans IN Cleveland? For the record, I only root for ND. My pro sports fandom is a part of ancient history.
Rey, I know you’re not from Cleveland. I was just using the flow chart in reverse. That is, determining who you are based on who you root for.
Wally, I also heard that BYU tried to prevent McMahon from breaking some of Marc Wilson’s records late in his career there, but that was because he isn’t Mormon. Yeah, I don’t know how he avoided trouble.
The “punch in the neck” comment was based on the “What baseball team should you root for?” link in my first comment in this thread. Check it out to understand what I was talking about.
All you guys from Rochester, I think I’ve asked this before, but who the heck are you guys supposed to root for? Besides the Bills and Syracuse University, of course? You’re like 3 hours from Toronto and 4+ hours from Cleveland and Pittsburgh, right? Doesn’t give you a lot of excellent choices.
I think they tend to root for the Baltimore Orioles b/c the Rochester Red Wings have been the AAA feeder to Baltimore for decades. Of course, being an Orioles backer these days really sux. But I have met TONS of Yankmee fans on my trips there.
Heck … Rochester fans are like true free agents … they can go root for whoever they feel like. For instance, Smitty used to be a huge Dallas Cowboys fan until he suddenly spent time in Boston and adopted the NE Hoodies.
Bills dominate NFL fans in Rochester, but there are big chapters for Browns and Steelers. As to MLB, I would guess that the free agency to which Wally refers leads to many NYY and BoSox fans, but as he noted many follow the Orioles and many old timers follow the Cards for similar reasons (they were the parent club to the Red Wings before Baltimore). I know in nearby communities like Mt Morris and Geneseo groups still gather at bars to talk and follow the Cards (and drink too). the Sabers might be the closest major league team to be consisdered “Rochester”. No one competes with SU on a college level, but you either love ’em or hate ’em. The haters don’t usually have a favorite except for who SU is playing that night. The closest you find to competition for SU is ND and to some degree PSU. As I said in an earlier post, Rochester is the “best minor league sports town” in the country. We are nomads or free agents when it comes to major league professional sports.
Smitty used to be a Cowboys fan?!? That’s really what I call soul-less. 🙂
I used to work with an older lady…huge baseball fan from Rochester originally. She was a Cardinals fan from way back.
Yep..Used to be a Cowboys fan.. I was upset with the way Jerry Jones fired Tom Landry and then I was officially off the wagon when Barry Switzer was hired. Moved to Boston and started following the Patriots – when Pete Carroll was the coach. Enough said.
So I tried to access the flowchart and got “Forbidden File” . What does that say about me as a sports fan?? 🙂
So earlier in the week, Duke Snider passed away. Chas, I am not sure we ever did anything on centerfielders, but where does Duke Snider fall in that category? Top 5? Top 10?
I think he is easily in the Top 10 – Mays, Cobb, Mantle, Griffey Jr., Speaker Dimaggio and then who else?
Is anyone else tired of the NFL labor talks already? Talk to me if they are still negotiating in September. Otherwise there is plenty of other news.
Smitty, Duke Snider would definitely be in the top 10, but not the top 5. Honestly, after the 8 best CFers in the Hall of Fame, most of the rest of them are nowhere near as iconic. Not counting the Negro Leaguers, who I really don’t know enough about to say. This would roughly be my list:
1. Willie Mays
2. Ty Cobb
3. Mickey Mantle
4. Joe DiMaggio
5. Tris Speaker
6. Ken Griffey Jr.
7. Oscar Charleston
8. Duke Snider
9. Billy Hamilton
10. Jim Edmonds
Like I said, I don’t really know enough about the Negro Leaguers, but I had to slot Oscar Charleston in somewhere based on everything I’ve read about how good he was. He probably should be higher on the list, but I need statistics for comparison purposes, and unfortunately we don’t have them.
Yes, Jim Edmonds at #10. Deal with it.
Chas,
Your list makes me realize how much talent has played at the cf position in history.
Snider led the majors in hrs and RBI during the 50s, and you seem to have him at the right spot.
Casey, it’s a pretty big dropoff after that, though.
If Snider could have maintained that performance, he’d be higher up, but he wasn’t nearly the player for the Los Angeles Dodgers that he was for the Brooklyn Dodgers. He was the Duke of Flatbush, but not the Duke of Hollywood.
Smitty, I was getting that forbidden file message too, beginning last night. My guess is that page got so much traffic, they had to take it down or something. Here’s where I saw it originally, but you can’t really see this image well enough to read it: https://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2011/3/2/2025252/flowchart-what-mlb-team-should-you-root-for-keep-in-mind-im-a-yankees
Got that chart yesterday, pretty funny, took me straight to the Mets, so that’s all I needed to know. Here’s a link that works -https://cdn3.sbnation.com/imported_assets/666055/ibd_baseball_flowchart.jpg
Didn’t know you were that miserable, Bill.
Sometimes it feels that way, Chas. Being a Mets fan is like buying a ticket to Misery town. The bright spot is they win the big dance every 30 years or so. And unlike Yankee fans, I have a soul.
Misery? Try being a Cubs fan, Bill.
Hey, ANYONE can have a bad century!
The Duke Snider discussion got me thinking, so here’s a soft toss to Chas and maybe some of you other SABR metric guys:
Who are the Top 10 most productive offensive players in the history of MLB, regardless of position?
Thought I’d start you on your weekend with an easy one 😉
Good question, Wally, although you’re right…on some level it’s an easy one, although ranking them will still require some tough decisions. Let me get back to you on that one.
Cubs are a tough team to pull for, I’ll give you that. I balance out the year with being a Rangers fan, who, like the Mets, have suffered numerous injuries this year, and any promise looks like it is burning out. So I basically suffer year round.
But the Cubs, man, ouch, my condolences.
Top ten most productive offensive players in MLB history. My list would probably look something like this:
1. Babe Ruth
2. Barry Bonds
3. Ted Williams
4. Lou Gehrig
5. Ty Cobb
6. Stan Musial
7. Rogers Hornsby
8. Jimmie Foxx
9. Mickey Mantle
10. Hank Aaron/Willie Mays
Maybe I should do a post on this?
Very interesting, Chas. Thanks for posting this. I’m a little surprised that Ruth still beats out Bonds (PEDs and all), but happy to acknowledge so. So is this based on SABR metrics or what is the basis? Also, is this based on per season averages or careers in total?
I was thinking Ted Williams might be #1 if the ranking were based more on per season averages.
What value is Runs Scored in this equation? (Looking for Rickey Henderson … where does he rank?). I’m surprised there is nobody other than Bonds representing the post Mays/Aaron time period. Was this eval basis adjusted for era?
Babe Ruth was a friggin’ stud, wasn’t he? Didn’t look terribly athletic in the uniform, but he terrorized pitchers like no other hitter.
If you were kind enough to do a separate post, I’d certainly find it interesting.
Good questions, Wally. I’ll do a post and go into more detail, and my results might be a little different since I’ll be giving this exercise the analysis it deserves.
I’ll try to answer your general questions briefly, though. I looked at a couple total player valuation metrics that are strictly based on offense. Yes, they’re era and park adjusted and all. I looked at both cumulative numbers and rate stats, but put a little more emphasis on the cumulative. That’s why Albert Pujols didn’t make the list.
Rickey would probably make the top 20.
Bonds actual rates a little better than Ruth in the cumulative stats, but falls short of both Ruth and Williams in the rate stats. Ruth scores high in both cumulative and rate stats, so that’s why I have him at the top.
I was a little surprised that Bonds’s baserunning didn’t nudge him ahead of Ruth. I’ll take a closer look at this when I do a more detailed analysis.
I just love it when bad things happen to stupid people … not life-threatening things … just enough bad to make them miserable. Case in point: Tiki Barber. I hope nobody gives this guy a look. Let him stew in debt !!! Read below.
————————————————————————————————
SI.com reports: Former New York Giants running back Tiki Barber plans to come out of retirement and play in 2011, sources close to Barber said Tuesday. The agency that represents Barber confirmed the report on its Twitter account.
Barber filed paperwork to the NFL so that the Giants can relinquish his rights and allow him to explore free agency. Barber, who turns 36 in April, retired in 2007 after 10 seasons and is the Giants’ all-time leading rusher. Barber reportedly left his wife of 11 years, Ginny, for a 23-year-old former NBC intern and lost his job with the network. The New York Post reported last June that Barber was broke and couldn’t pay his divorce settlement.