Okay loyal readers, here is your chance to get the discussion going. Let us know what is on your mind. Today is a great day for the Pine!
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Crossword Petesays
So….if the BCS national championship is on January 10, compromising the quality of football because of the 6 week layoff and cutting into academic time for schools that have returned to session by then, why are the university presidents opposed to a playoff? Oh, I’m sorry! I was under the mistaken impression that they were the ones making that decision. I forget that corporate America, called the BCS in this case, has taken over all decisions regarding college football.
I would suggest that the schools maintain sports programs that function as minor leagues with a school affiliation rather than pretend that academics and sports really do mix well. Oh I am sure some degrees are well earned and all, but I would bet the bulk of athletes aren’t too concerned with grades. Just offer some communications courses as an option, and let the kids spent all their time training.
Wallysays
Bill —
I disagree with your second point. Now this will vary from school to school and sport to sport … but i would assert that somewhere between freshman and senior year, “the bulk” of college athletes, regardless of division, realize that they are not gonna make any money playing sports after college … and therefore become concerned with grades and/or getting their degrees. I’d put the estimate at 75% overall, with higher %s for athletes in sports other than football and basketball and of course corresponding lower %s for football and hoops players.
But still … recognize that even 60% of LSU’s football roster utlimately recognizes they need to get their degree … but sometimes that light bulb doesn’t go on until senior year. But you can bet that at least 90% of Oklahoma’s swim team are kids who realize they better get their degrees and do well in school overall.
I guess my overall point is that, yes, intercollegiate athletics really serves a good and noble purpose for the “majority” of athletes that participate. And, yes, I get it that football is driven by $$$$ … hoops too. It’s much more of a “business” for those two sports. But just realize that there are a lot of true “student-athletes” in both those sports. For every Scam Newton out there, there’s 3 other players who are busting their butts in the classroom as well as on the field.
Good discussion guys, although there is a difference between “they need to get their degree” and “recognizes they need to get their degree,” which is pretty apparent from the article Casey links to.
Wallysays
Yes, Chas … the first number is bigger than the second … and that’s why a lot of “football factory” schools have pathetic graduation rates for their players. Tennessee comes to mind. Wait … so does LSU … and Bama … and Florida State. Aha … it’s come full circle! No wonder the SEC is bigger, stronger, faster … they’ll take ANYONE!
Okay … not fair to just pick on the SEC … it’s pretty obvious Oklahoma, Ohio St and USC (to name a few) have quite a few players who aren’t very interested in school. USC sounds like the best deal … get a scholarship, enjoy the weather and other “perks”, go to class if you care to, and we’ll have this little under-the-table stipend waiting for you as well.
bill ribassays
Wally, I don’t even buy into my second point, but I do think making college sports into the business it is would be better overall. Maybe just football and basketball, since they are the bigger players. Stop all this nonsense of, oh, college athletes don’t (or shouldn’t) get perks, because if you believe that never happens, well, I got a bridge I can sell you. Sure, there are kids who embrace sports as a means of getting their education, and I have no problem with that. But there is so much money around, I mean, some stadiums can hold 3 times the population of this town I live in, and all the money from ticket sales and concessions don’t go toward player salaries, right?
Let me throw out this question, does anyone know of a book about the insides of college sports, say football or basketball? I now Casey posted a link to an article a while back that was pretty interesting, but is there anything like that in a book form? Just curious.
And couldn’t you make the bowl system better, if say, the top 25 or 30 college teams went pro in some respect?
just curious.
Wallysays
Bill —
I think there’s a fairly recent book out called “Death to the BCS”. Haven’t read it but I heard it’s pretty good and it easily pokes huge holes in the current system (not hard to do).
Here’s another funny … actually, maddening … thing about college football. So we all heard on television Monday night how Auburn won their 2nd national title … with the first one coming in 1957 (not quite a Cubs-type drought, but a pretty long time). But wait … we come to find that Ohio State is also claiming a national title for 1957!!! How can that be? Are there any other colleges claiming a title for ’57??? So again … because Div 1 college football is the ONLY SPORT on Earth where there is no playoff system … but polls instead … there is actually uncertainty as to who the champion is. This also happened in 2003, 1997, 1991, 1990 …. etc.
So be careful when you hear about schools’ self-proclaimed championships … it might be a highly inflated number. And it really stinks … like a skunk … or a Skunkbear … funny you should bring up Meeeechigan. The Skunkbears claim something like 9 national titles. Well … I’m here to tell ya they actually have only 2.5 since 1920 and maybe another 2.5 from 1900-1919. Before 1900, only like 8 teams played football and you were allowed to declare yourself the champ. That accounts for UM’s 4 other titles. Way to go Skunkbears!
Crossword Petesays
Casey, I did read the article about where bowl money goes. It’s sad indeed. I think several people have supported my original point in various ways. All I am saying is that the university presidents have been charged with maintaining the integrity of college sports, and while they pretend to do so, they sell out to the business end rather quickly and completely. The vast majority of college athletes are truly student athletes, but the presidents ride on the coat tails of the major sports at the sports factories yet pretend to do otherwise. They are an embarrassment to the academic world.
Saw this topic brought up in another post and thought it was funny when I looked it up. Princeton and Yale claim the most national championships in college football with 28 and 26 respectively. Ironically a lot of the years they claim are the same.
Okay loyal readers, here is your chance to get the discussion going. Let us know what is on your mind. Today is a great day for the Pine!
So….if the BCS national championship is on January 10, compromising the quality of football because of the 6 week layoff and cutting into academic time for schools that have returned to session by then, why are the university presidents opposed to a playoff? Oh, I’m sorry! I was under the mistaken impression that they were the ones making that decision. I forget that corporate America, called the BCS in this case, has taken over all decisions regarding college football.
Helmet Sticker.
Funny how a playoff does not affect academic time at the D3, D2 and D1A levels.
Pete: I didn’t know if you saw this article that I linked in a previous thread: https://ncaafootball.fanhouse.com/2011/01/10/bowls-pay-bowl-officials-big-bucks/?ncid=txtlnkusspor00000002
I would suggest that the schools maintain sports programs that function as minor leagues with a school affiliation rather than pretend that academics and sports really do mix well. Oh I am sure some degrees are well earned and all, but I would bet the bulk of athletes aren’t too concerned with grades. Just offer some communications courses as an option, and let the kids spent all their time training.
Bill —
I disagree with your second point. Now this will vary from school to school and sport to sport … but i would assert that somewhere between freshman and senior year, “the bulk” of college athletes, regardless of division, realize that they are not gonna make any money playing sports after college … and therefore become concerned with grades and/or getting their degrees. I’d put the estimate at 75% overall, with higher %s for athletes in sports other than football and basketball and of course corresponding lower %s for football and hoops players.
But still … recognize that even 60% of LSU’s football roster utlimately recognizes they need to get their degree … but sometimes that light bulb doesn’t go on until senior year. But you can bet that at least 90% of Oklahoma’s swim team are kids who realize they better get their degrees and do well in school overall.
I guess my overall point is that, yes, intercollegiate athletics really serves a good and noble purpose for the “majority” of athletes that participate. And, yes, I get it that football is driven by $$$$ … hoops too. It’s much more of a “business” for those two sports. But just realize that there are a lot of true “student-athletes” in both those sports. For every Scam Newton out there, there’s 3 other players who are busting their butts in the classroom as well as on the field.
Believe it or not, Wally is actually under-estimating the numbers. Check out this article (you only need to read the first 15 paragraphs or so: https://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=easterbrook/091215&sportCat=nfl
Good discussion guys, although there is a difference between “they need to get their degree” and “recognizes they need to get their degree,” which is pretty apparent from the article Casey links to.
Yes, Chas … the first number is bigger than the second … and that’s why a lot of “football factory” schools have pathetic graduation rates for their players. Tennessee comes to mind. Wait … so does LSU … and Bama … and Florida State. Aha … it’s come full circle! No wonder the SEC is bigger, stronger, faster … they’ll take ANYONE!
Okay … not fair to just pick on the SEC … it’s pretty obvious Oklahoma, Ohio St and USC (to name a few) have quite a few players who aren’t very interested in school. USC sounds like the best deal … get a scholarship, enjoy the weather and other “perks”, go to class if you care to, and we’ll have this little under-the-table stipend waiting for you as well.
Wally, I don’t even buy into my second point, but I do think making college sports into the business it is would be better overall. Maybe just football and basketball, since they are the bigger players. Stop all this nonsense of, oh, college athletes don’t (or shouldn’t) get perks, because if you believe that never happens, well, I got a bridge I can sell you. Sure, there are kids who embrace sports as a means of getting their education, and I have no problem with that. But there is so much money around, I mean, some stadiums can hold 3 times the population of this town I live in, and all the money from ticket sales and concessions don’t go toward player salaries, right?
Let me throw out this question, does anyone know of a book about the insides of college sports, say football or basketball? I now Casey posted a link to an article a while back that was pretty interesting, but is there anything like that in a book form? Just curious.
And couldn’t you make the bowl system better, if say, the top 25 or 30 college teams went pro in some respect?
just curious.
Bill —
I think there’s a fairly recent book out called “Death to the BCS”. Haven’t read it but I heard it’s pretty good and it easily pokes huge holes in the current system (not hard to do).
Here’s another funny … actually, maddening … thing about college football. So we all heard on television Monday night how Auburn won their 2nd national title … with the first one coming in 1957 (not quite a Cubs-type drought, but a pretty long time). But wait … we come to find that Ohio State is also claiming a national title for 1957!!! How can that be? Are there any other colleges claiming a title for ’57??? So again … because Div 1 college football is the ONLY SPORT on Earth where there is no playoff system … but polls instead … there is actually uncertainty as to who the champion is. This also happened in 2003, 1997, 1991, 1990 …. etc.
So be careful when you hear about schools’ self-proclaimed championships … it might be a highly inflated number. And it really stinks … like a skunk … or a Skunkbear … funny you should bring up Meeeechigan. The Skunkbears claim something like 9 national titles. Well … I’m here to tell ya they actually have only 2.5 since 1920 and maybe another 2.5 from 1900-1919. Before 1900, only like 8 teams played football and you were allowed to declare yourself the champ. That accounts for UM’s 4 other titles. Way to go Skunkbears!
Casey, I did read the article about where bowl money goes. It’s sad indeed. I think several people have supported my original point in various ways. All I am saying is that the university presidents have been charged with maintaining the integrity of college sports, and while they pretend to do so, they sell out to the business end rather quickly and completely. The vast majority of college athletes are truly student athletes, but the presidents ride on the coat tails of the major sports at the sports factories yet pretend to do otherwise. They are an embarrassment to the academic world.
Stanford promoting their offensive coordinator makes a lot of sense. With Luck coming back, no reason to change the direction of the offense.
Cam Newton is sprinting to the NFL.. Does anyone else thinks this smells?
Wes Welker is a good foot soldier.
Saw this topic brought up in another post and thought it was funny when I looked it up. Princeton and Yale claim the most national championships in college football with 28 and 26 respectively. Ironically a lot of the years they claim are the same.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/College_football_national_championships_in_NCAA_Division_I_FBS#National_championship_claims_by_school