by Wally
Well, it’s Friday again (seems to come around every week quite quickly these days). So we’re on the cusp of cementing the teams that will be included in the CFB Div 1 playoffs … that is, the ONE game playoff with a few other glorified exhibition games preceding it in a rather annoying and unsatisfying two week period. This of course is also known as the crappy BCS system. Nonetheless, it seems fitting that two teams previously burned by the system during this decade … Oregon and Auburn … control their own destiny and can see the path to the title game. All they have to do is win Saturday. “That’s all”. 🙂 So let’s take a look at the games that have an impact on the BCS bowls:
— Rutgers at #24 West Virginia: WVU needs a win over the Scarlet Knights combined with a UConn loss to South Florida later in the day to gain the conference’s berth to a BCS bowl. It’s been a “long, bad night” for the Knights all season and this won’t be any different. WVU wins by 24.
— UConn at South Florida: It’s win-and-in to the BCS for the Huskies. But it won’t happen! The Bulls will again be led by Michael Jordan scoring double figures (oops … wrong Bulls), but nonetheless, Skip Hotz’s team will win a close one and play spoiler.
— Utah State at #11 Boise State: Okay … I admit it, this game doesn’t have BCS implications. But I wanted to point out that the Broncos were summarily buried in the polls after a one point give away loss (the infamous missed FGs) on the road to a very good team in OT. Sure … that deserves a demotion of 10 spots in the human polls …. NOT!!! Get real people and show some respect to a class organization. Ok … Broncos may take out their frustration by placekicking Utah State players through the uprights. Boise by a bunch to finish 11-1. vNot sure what that gets ’em in terms of bowls, but I’ll salute ’em for a GREAT run over the past two seasons!
— #1 Oregon at Oregon State: The annual Civil War game is intriguing only because it’s on the Beavers home turf in Corvallis. But the Ducks must punch this ticket to get into the title game and their rival OSU would love nothing more at this point than to end Oregon’s dreams. I see this as a close one through the first half, but Oregon gradually and convincingly pulling away in the second half as they’ve done so many times this season. Ducks 37 Beavers 20.
— #1 Auburn vs #19 South Carolina (Atlanta): It’s the SEC title game and anything can happen. Now that Cam Newton is eligible (at the moment) per the NCAA (Really???), maybe the Tigers will play with clear heads and not struggle for 2/3 of the game as they have many times recently. Can Spurrier & Co play a complete game like they did vs Alabama??? The Gamecocks are a wildly inconsistent team and cannot afford a poor half of football. Hope I’m wrong, but I think, yet again, we’ll see Cam Newton’s second half magic lead the Tigers to a win and a berth opposite Oregon in the BCS title game. Auburn 34 SCarolina 24. (But I would love to see Auburn lose to pave the way for TCU to get a title shot … for all the little schools that never made it). ok … that was borrowed from Hoosiers.
— #9 Oklahoma vs #13 Nebraska (Big 12 Championship game): Winner, of course, goes to a BCS Bowl. I kinda like the Huskers in this one. Sooners might have spent most of their energy just trying to get here because the had to beat OK State in a barnburner last week to do so. Bo Pellini’s squad has a chip on their shoulder … still fuming over losses to A&M and Texas. I like Nebraska’s D vs OU’s O slightly, and also kinda favor Husker’s O vs Sooners D. So that settles it … Nebraska wins a tight one 27-24.
— #21 Florida State vs #15 Virginia Tech (ACC Chan’ship): Similar to that very last bowl game on New Year’s Day which usually features a collosal mismatch, I’m not sure anyone will care about this one by the time it rolls around. Still, I’m gonna make a pick … based purely on emotion … because I still have great disdain for Florida State … yes, because of 1993, which still bumfuzzles me . Anyway, FSU could be playing New Mexico and I’d still pick against them. Va Tech wins 24-23 …. which isn’t too far fetched.
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Before signing off, we should have a moment of silence to salute the life of Ron Santo. The former Cub great 3rd baseman and beloved radio broadcaster passed away at age 70 after battling several illnesses and recently cancer. Santo never witnessed his longtime goal of election to the Baseball Hall of Fame despite career numbers that mark him as one of baseball’s all-time great third basemen. He finished with a .277 average over 15 major league seasons, with 342 home runs and 1,331 RBIs. At the very least, Ron Santo is firmly in Chicago’s heart and it’s own HoF. If Ernie Banks is “Mr. Cub”, then Ron Santo must be his twin brother. We’ll miss ya Ronnie!
I just heard about Santo this morning. I didn’t realize he was that old, which in turn, made me check the mirror.
I did not have 50 players who should be in HOF but aren’t, but I had 5, and Santo was among them. Those mirrors are a scary thing these days, hey Bill; at least for me.
It’s a moot point now, Pete, but I wasn’t asking for 50 players who aren’t in the Hall of Fame but should be. I was asking for the 50 best players not in the Hall. That’s all.
On the subject of Santo, you may find this interesting. The following are the number of players in the Hall by position:
C – 16
1B – 25
2B – 18
SS – 22
3B – 14
There are also over 20 for each outfield position.
I’m not saying these numbers have to be equal, but it does say something about positions that may be undervalued. Catcher is considered such an important position, and we all know that catchers’ offensive numbers suffer as a result of the demands of the position. Yet, there are 56% more first basemen in the Hall than there are catchers.
There are also 79% more third basemen than first basemen. Why is this? Obviously, partly because a lot of great hitters, who weren’t defensively skilled enough to play third (or left-handed throwers), ended up at first. But still, this is a pretty big discrepancy. To me, with Major League Baseball now being around 135 years old, if you’re in the top 20 all-time at your position, you should be a Hall of Famer.
RIP Ron Santo.
UConn in BCS after winning powerhouse Big Least conference, and Boise State out (or Ok St, or Neb, or even LSU or ‘Bama)? WHY is the Big Least an AQ conference? Wasn’t that appropriate when Miami or even BC was a member? I’m sorry, but WVa and Pitt are not consistent national powers. Maybe the AQ status is based on SU’s performance!
Wally, good job with the Casual Friday posts, and especially good job with picking winners. Your upset picks were often right on the money.
Settle down, Pete. AQ status is based on contract … a contract that was signed several years ago. Big East is lucky that thing was signed several years ago at a time when the conference was actually a player on the national scene. Really can’t do anything about a contract and I’m not sure when it can be tweaked or up for renewal. In the meantime, we have to deal with a subpar BE in football … maybe TCU’s entrance next season will up the game for everyone in BE ???
Where’s ND going bowling??? I’m reading that it’s the Dec 31 Sun Bowl in El Paso … Champs in Orlando will take West Virginia (9-3). Nothing definite, but this is how it looks. I’m sure there’s a “bowl show” some time today that will clarify everything.
ND hoops … 8-0 … big game 12/8 vs Kentucky. Aren’t you going to Gonzaga game coming up?
ND women’s soccer is playing Stanford today for the NCAA Chan’ship.
Wally, nice job nailing the civil war game score! What happened to the Husker offense in the second half? The offense totally blew their fiesta bowl chances by accumulating just 78 yards in the second half, with a few turnovers to boot. Va. Tech was dominate in their latest installment of undefeated in ACC play; what a comeback after loosing to BSU in the season opener and tripping over themselves against James Madison.
Witnessed an impressive blowout and regular season closer on the Blue. Senior day started with a presentation honoring each of the departing seniors. What impressed me the most was the rousing applause, and lack of boo’s, given to Brotzman upon his entrance. Kellen Moore capped off a great regular season with 3TD’s and even a rushing TD! No chance for him to win the Heisman though, as Cam pretty much sealed it for himself in the SEC championship game.
It looks like BSU is headed to either San Fran against an ACC team or down to Las Vegas to take on Utah. It would be fairly disappointing to see the Broncos play a lesser ACC team after beating the ACC champ earlier in the season. I would rather take on Utah–if these are really BSU’s only options–and make the Utah football program happy they decided to duck out of the mountain west and run, undeservingly, to the Pac-10/12?.
How messed up is it that UCONN is a BCS team and Boise isn’t it? Temple beat the Huskies earlier in the year! I love my alma-mater, but come on. Anthony – thanks for sharing about Brotzman on senior day. I actually read somewhere that some BSU fans created a Facebook page for him where they shared pictures of him to keep his spirits up. Makes me like/appreciate the atmosphere around that program/school even more.
Anthony —
can you honor is by revealing Kellen Moore’s final stats for the season and how they stack up vs history’s top college QBs? I just have a feeling his QB rating was way off the charts. He should at least make another appearance in New York City as one of the Heisman finalists.
Rey —
It’s way messed up in so many ways. And as I pointed out to Pete earlier, the BCS is guided by a contract, so it’s obligated to pick conference winners, no matter how bad the conference or that team was in a given year.
It is very messed up that UCONN gets the BCS bid with 4 losses and other great teams get left in the dust. I think its obvious that the BCS system is not a viable system for putting the best teams against each other. It seems like every year someone gets left out while a sub par team always gets an automatic in. I’m not saying that I have the answer, but there definitely needs to be another way of doing this. What I don’t understand is how the Div 1-AA and Div 2 football can get away with a championship tourny but people say that it can’t be done for Div 1. Why?….why…why…why
I can’t find the electronic version, but check out this week’s copy of SI (Drew Brees on the cover). Bill Hancock, BCS Executive Director, wrote a letter to the editor. He is great at ducking and covering.
And how many weeks are teams about to get off? So why would a December playoff be so difficult???
Because, as Hancock explains, the bowls would lose too much money.
Nobody loses money with my proposed 8 team playoff format, where New Years Day is again Christmas to CFB fans. Actually, EVERYONE makes a lot more money and the bowls are preserved essentially as is … except again there are 4 games that REALLY count on NYD. Then there’s 3 games after that.
The BE AQ status highlights for me why Casey’s 16 team – 11 conference qualifier playoff would stink. The BCS contract was formulated when BE had the likes of Va Tech, Miami, BC, when SU and WVa were consistent top performers, when Rutgers and Lou-uh-vul rode the crest of BE success. They don’t belong in AQ status based on today’s line-up and their accomplishments. 8 teams, no AQs; the best of the best with conference affiliation only one factor considered by pollsters.
BTW, only one bowl game is NOT on ESPN. the Sun Bowl – ND v Miami – is on CBS. To a crotchety old man who gets only a very basic cable with no ESPN, that’s good news. I’ll get to see the only game I really care about!
It stinks based upon exception not rule. If each conference has a shot, the recruiting landscape would change creating a long-range improvement in competition. The alternative would be to eliminate the five non-BCS conferences from the mix. Put them in a separate division instead of continuing the charade.
It also does not stink because if the Big East is truly sub-par, their representative would get bounced easily.
I don’t see how the fact that the Big East has AQ status based on past performance has anything to do with Casey’s playoff format. In Casey’s, all FBS teams get a representative. Nobody makes it because of what happened years ago.
The BE AQ status highlights that the BCS stinks, plain and simple. Who cares about anything beyond the title game, and the team you root for, anyway?
Casey makes an excellent point. There are teams in the FBS right now who have virtually no chance of winning a championship. Isn’t that the essence of anti-competitive? When this college basketball season started, even SE Missouri St. had the slimmest of slim chances of winning the national championship, based on on-court performance. That can’t be said for college football.
“…all FBS conferences get a representative,” that is.
No arguments from me … the BCS stinks and is certainly anti-competitive. Wonder of it would hang together of faced with anti-trust suits as some folks in DC have threatened over the years?
I would agree that certainly C-USA teams have no chance to compete for the nat’l title in the current BCS system … and I’m sure there are others in Div 1A football. As we saw this year, at least the WAC and Mtn West teams were “in the mix” but the cards didn’t fall their way. Of course, these “small guys” have to be PERFECT to even be in the mix.
Pete —
There are a few bowl games I care about in addition to the ND/Miami game: I badly want to see Oregon win the title game over Auburn … because the Ducks have never won a title and they would be sticking it to the SEC in general. I want to see TCU win the Rose Bowl and strike another big victory for the small conferences to go along with Boise over Oklahoma and Utah over Bama in prior years. Who could want a bigger stage to hopefully prove a point???
I’m disappointed that Boise State is relegated to play “lowly Utah” in their bowl game (Las Vegas). (Again … the “unfairness” of this system). By the way, a longtime engineer/friend of mine (with no rooting interest) has reviewed Brotzman’s regulation ending field goal over and over and over. His conclusion: IT WAS GOOD! Even though we’d all prefer to have better replay angles, he did the math, etc and says it was good and it wasn’t actually all that close. For whatever that’s worth 🙂
On to Kellen Moore, who just finished, except the bowl game, one of the GREATEST seasons a QB has ever had:
CMP ATT YDS CMP% YDS/A TD INT RAT
245 345 3,506 71.0 10.2 33 5 185.0 Kellen Moore ’10
328 483 4,720 67.9 9.8 50 8 180.8 Sam Bradford ’08
269 412 3,322 65.3 33 6 156.5 Matt Leinhart ’04
Moore is compared above to a couple recent Heisman winning QBs who were thought to have “greatest seasons ever” and his stats are certainly comparable, if not better … esp vs Leinhart Note that Moore is only a junior and will be back in 2011. I’m not advocating Moore for this year’s Heisman, because if Newton is indeed “eligible” and “not guilty” of the suspicions, he is clearly the MVP of this football season. He clearly demonstrated that Saturday and other times this season. Just want to give Moore his due.
That is the rationale for my all or nothing approach. I understand the practicality of what Wally suggests, and that a baby step approach is prudent. But 8 teams excludes, at the least, three conferences. All that does is promote the recruiting disparity. If we want a subjective or arbitrary system, then so be it. I don’t. Automatic qualifiers and a 16-team playoff allows the champion to be decided on the field. Are there going to be exceptions? Yes. Does that mean the best team will win? That is up to the individual to decide. I’m pretty sure that there are those among us who do not accept the New York Giants as the best NFL team in the 06-07 season. Same goes for this year’s San Fran Giants. And the ’85 Villanova Wildcats. And the ’83 NC State Wolfpack. And the 1980 US Men’s Hockey team. And the 1968 Jets.
If we had a playoff this year, and Pitt won, we would have to chalk it up to the possibility that a group of college kids can mature through the course of a season. Does that stink? I think that is what it is all about.
I guess I am in the minority in that I enjoy watching random bowl games. To me, that is the end of the line for a bunch of guys. That is worthy of my time. If I am home during Christmas week, and a bowl is on, I will watch it.
I will always try to watch teams I have a “connection with” in these bowl games — ND, NW, BSU, A&M, Illinois, etc …. and the “games that matter” — Oregon-Auburn, TCU-Wisc … but my only reason for watching any other “meaningless bowl game” … and there are a lot of them … is because I have nothing else to do and that’s what’s on. Without some sort of rooting interest or connection, I have no interest in seeing a couple of 7-5 or 8-4 teams go at it with nothing on the line.
Again … I just can’t help to think what a bonanza it would be on New Year’s Day … better than it used to be … if there was a quadruple-header of national playoff games held at the traditional bowl sites. Then the four winners move on to the semi’s a week or so later. Fans win, the sport wins, bowls win even more, and NCAA institution and TV networks’ bank accounts over flow. Wow … sign me up!
For the record, I like both Wally’s and Casey’s ideas. I definitely see the merits of both, and I’m sure we all can agree that both systems are way better than what we have now.
For a POTW honorable mention … don’t worry guys, I’m not taking one that somebody else will mention … I want to give some props to Chicago White Sox management (Jerry Reinsdorf and Ken Williams) for 3 things:
1) signing Adam Dunn — coulda used this huge power LH bat this past season, but happy to have him going forward.
2) not signing Booby Jinx … er, uh … Bobby Jenks to a new contract. Good riddance on getting rid of the big fat clown.
3) Talking about trying to keep Paul Konerko. Sox need this slugger and fan fave to stay in town. Very good on the field, very good in clubhouse. Will go down as one of the all-time great ChiSox with another season or two.
Hot stove league is heating up! 🙂
Don’t get me wrong. I would watch ALL the bowl games if I got ESPN. But the only one that matters in the sense of NEED TO WATCH is ND/Sun Bowl (this year). I will follow results quite closely in Rose Bowl and Championship game. Wally, I share your sentiments regarding the outcomes of each of those games. I still like to see intersectional match-ups of the nation’s elite, so a few other bowls are still somewhat intriguing , but as Wally has often said, NYD ain’t what it used to be, and is certainly nowhere near what it could potentially be. And BTW, when does the Cotton Bowl get back into the major-bowl mix ahead of this “upstart” Fiesta Bowl. Although ND’s most recent national championship was secured in the Fiesta Bowl, the Cotton Bowl holds many fond memories for ND fans. Maybe their was wisdom we did not see at the time when the Cotton Bowl said “no” to BCS inclusion.
Still think having all conferences get a playoff spot is a bad idea. Best teams only. Not like BB, where there are 64 (or 65 or 68 or whatever) teams so some spots can be “wasted” on teams with a 98% chance of going nowhere. AQs for conferences means UConn makes it in. That makes a new playoff system very much like the current BCS system; useless! I am just a not a proponent of going from one waste of time to another. If ever there is a change, make it a worthwhile change, don’t just enlargen the field to more undeserving teams. The TCUs and the Boise States of any given year will give their conferences recognition and exposure and recruitment leverage that will level the playing field somewhat, and guess what, that field will never be totally level anyway.
Pete —
I have at least a “semi-solution” to the point you’re making in your 2nd paragraph contained within my proposed 8 team playoff format. Only conference champions from THE FOUR OR FIVE STRONGEST CONFERENCES that particular season get an automatic bid. The “strongest conferences” would be determined by Sagarin or RPI ratings … something like that. It would vary year-to year. That would leave 3 or 4 at large births available to all other teams, regardless of conference.
So in years when the Big East or ACC totally suck, they won’t get a team in. Unless of course their conference champion is quite strong … 1 loss or better but the rest of conference is weak … then they might get an at-large birth.
How does that sound? It certainly preserves the prestige of winning a conference …. but it better be a good conference or else you have to stand on your merits alone as a team to get into the Elite 8. TCU and Boise State would probably get at-large berths in my system this year … although BSU would be on the bubble given they lost that Nevada game.
Then you might as well get rid of C-USA, the Sun Belt, MAC, Mountain West and WAC because they will never be deemed worthy.
Okay. So what’s changed? Those conferences were never “deemed worthy” throughout history anyway.
Nonetheless, I think, but am not sure … was the Mtn West conference rated #5 this year???
Still … teams that play in those conferences can garner attention … like Boise State, TCU and Utah have done … by winning their conferences convincingly AND by winning some non-conference games against good competition. Even little Northern Illinois was actually in the Top 10 within the last 15 years, weren’t they?
Last point … I would never encourage any conferences to simply disband just because they don’t have the “AQ status”. At some point, pride in winning the conference is the reason you play … just ask the Ivy Leaguers and the annual winner of the Commander In Chief trophy. You think Navy gives a hoot whether they can win a spot in a playoff? No … they just want to beat Army and Air force every year. And Notre Dame.
I’m curious, Wally, since you’ve called your proposal a smaller step in the right direction, would you be in favor of Casey’s as the next step? What is the round of 16 was played Christmas Day, getting the blowouts out of the way. There’s never been really good college football on Christmas anyway. Then, the round of 8 could be on New Year’s Day, and those games would be just as big of a deal as in your system.
At least one thing has changed. Five years ago, Boise State was nothing more than some school out west with a blue playing field.
How many other schools are there that fit the same description?
And TCU was nothing more than a team with purple uniforms and a wacky mascot.
What these schools have demonstrated is that, yes, the little guys can make some noise and get to the big-time bowls. TCU in the Rose Bowl this year … that’s huge progress. Shows that your conference’s lack of reputation can be overcome … but it’s not easy and the playing field is still too slanted toward teams’ from the big conferences. Boise deserves to be in one of the 5-6 major bowls this year … but they’re not.
Chas —
Generally, I’d be OK personally with the round of 16 starting Christmas Day … but i do see some major issues with it: 1) Viewership on Christmas day may not be what you think it is and I’m almost positive it isn’t anywhere near what NYD is; 2) I would anticipate significant opposition from the universities for two reasons … a) taking more kids out of school for more games and practices and b) having the playoffs occur on or near Christmas. There has always been pushback from the university presidents on adding December games and Christmas has been viewed as hands off. As an alternative, can they play the round of 16 on Dec 11 (two weeks before Christmas) , study for and take final exams between the 12th and 20th, have three days off around Christmas and get back to practicing on Dec 26 for the Elite 8 games? That might work, but you better make sure the venues of current bowl games are used to avoid another argument.
Here’s a timely article today that supports a 16 team playoff format. Author is not clear on exactly when the games would be played (but i read very fast …coulda missed). But in the interests of full disclosure, he likes to give an auto bid to all conference winners, ala Casey. Have a look:
https://msn.foxsports.com/collegefootball/story/College-football-playoff-system-thats-better-than-BCS-opinion-120610
That’s kinda my point. Boise and TCU have had great runs for 5-6 years. And what do they have to show for it? A nice pat on the back from the big boys. Don’t get me wrong. I appreciate everything they have done. But what happens to their programs if and when Peterson and Patterson leave because they have done their time and want a shot at the big prize? Those programs would go in the tank and give way to the next coach guiding a small program into the national conscience while padding his resume. Thankfully, Paterson and Peterson appear to be above that for now.
Here’s the thing. How many other schools like TCU and Boise are out there? They can’t just have one good year. They have to have 3-4 great years to just get on the radar. Think about this way. Florida sucks this year. They turn it around and next year they could be back into the title game. There are 5 conferences worth of teams that can not claim that.
Again, I understand the logic behind an 8-team playoff. But imagine this: they set in place the playoff with 8 teams. The BCS schools tell the non-BCS schools – don’t worry we plan to expand to a 16 team tournament that will include you. In the mean time, keep recruiting really hard. We gotta go and sell our recruits on this new playoff that we invited ourselves to.
As far as bowl games in December, there are three games on December 18th this year, and one each on the 21st, 22nd, 23rd, and 24th.
I just hate that they call this the national chan’ship, and it’s really NOT.
So, for the sake of example, let’s assume that BCS rankings would determine seedings, this would be field in Casey’s system:
1. Auburn – SEC
2. Oregon – Pac 10
3. TCU – Mt. West
4. Stanford – At large #1
5. Wisconsin – Big 10
6. Ohio St – At large #2
7. Oklahoma – Big 12
8. Arkansas – At large #3
9. Michigan St – At large #4
10. Boise St – At large #5
11. Virginia Tech – ACC
12. Nevada – WAC
13. Central Florida – Conf. USA
14. UConn – Big East
15. Miami (OH) – Mid-American
16. Florida International – Sun Belt
Most notable teams left out – LSU, Missouri, Oklahoma St
Opening round matchups:
Auburn – FIU
Oregon – Miami (OH)
TCU – UConn
Stanford – Central Florida
Wisconsin – Nevada
Ohio St – Virginia Tech
Oklahoma – Boise St
Arkansas – Michigan St
Definitely a few potentially good games in there. Two, three, maybe four blowouts. Just thought it would be interesting to look at this way.
In Wally’s system, I’m going to assume four automatic bids and four at-large berths, and that the top four conferences are the SEC, Big 12, Big 10 and Pac 10.
It looks like the top 8 from above would still make it, except that TCU would be an at-large team. That means Michigan St, Boise St and Virginia Tech would be the most notable teams left out. I could live with that. Auburn having to play Arkansas in the first round bothers me a little, but those would be some powerhouse matchups.
Chas —
I would have a committee do two things: 1) select the at-large teams and 2) seed all eight … one thru 8. Similar to NCAA basketball, the polls and computer rankings are merely used as a guide … I want heated arguments and debates to ensue, backed up with data. Committee is comprised of people who are as independent as possible with no conflict of interest.
Oh … and this committee would also determine which 4 conferences were “the best” this year … again based on data, but the criteria for determining this is known by everyone ahead of time. e.g. We’re gonna use the Sagarin ratings.
Casey — are you also advocating communism or socialism as your prefered socio-economic systems? At some point this “everybody gets to play” philosophy can really water down the product. Where’s the incentive to really compete, improve and distinguish yourself … like Boise and TCU have done? I mean, the fact the Florida Int’l, Central FLA and Miami OH get a crack at the playoffs in this simulation is disturbing. And in a violent game where injuries are frequent and really matter, Why should Auburn or Oregon have to risk injury against a crap team to get to the round of 8??? So if you’re gonna have a Sweet 16, pick automatic qualifiers from no more than 5 conferences (the 5 “best) and make the other 13 true at-large berths.
I don’t want to watch Auburn vs FLA Int’l. Or Oregon vs Miami OH. Make it a real game with teams that deserve to be there or just simply start with the Elite 8. Spare me another non-conference type blowout of a biggie vs a smallie … we saw all those in weeks 1-4.
Time for ND to join the Big East. The only way they will get better bowl tie-ins is to join a conference. To me it is a natural fit. Staying Independent is not in their best interest.
One way to improve your bowl tie ins is to DO BETTER THAN 7-5!!! ND easily coulda been 9-3 or possibly even 10-2 this year.
But still …. it’s all about having a crack at the titlegame and one of those big payout bowls. ND has as good a chance as any per the current BCS contract. Don’t they merely have to be in the Top 10 and it’s automatic?
But as a fan, if my team isn’t in the title game, then I don’t really care which bowl they’re in as long as it’s “near Jan 1”. Really … what diff does it make? I do want them to play in a bowl though.
Wally, I only used the BCS rankings to illustrate what these two ideas might look like.
Here’s a slight modification of a system I’ve previously suggested. I still think a major conference championship should get you a first round bye, so in my 10-team system, the 6 highest ranked conference champions (not highest ranked conferences, but highest ranked teams who won a conference championship) get first-round byes, and 4 at-large teams play an extra round. Using this year’s BCS rankings to determine who gets in and how they’re seeded, we have:
1. Auburn – SEC champ
2. Oregon – Pac 10 champ
3. TCU – Mt. West champ
4. Wisconsin – Big 10 champ
5. Oklahoma – Big 12 champ
6. Virginia Tech – ACC champ
7. Stanford – At large
8. Ohio St – At large
9. Arkansas – At large
10. Michigan St – At large
So, Stanford-Michigan St and Ohio St-Arkansas play for the right to get to the final 8. I wouldn’t be opposed to the idea of capping a particular conference’s entrants to two, in which case Boise St would get in. Otherwise, Boise St just misses because they didn’t win their conference, and Nevada just misses because Virginia Tech is a little higher ranked.
I know the downside vs. Wally’s system is it adds an extra round for four teams, and vs. Casey’s system it’s still weighted towards the big guys, but TCU makes it and Boise St would have if they lost to anyone but Nevada. So, the little guys are completely left out.
I don’t think even Casey is advocating that this year’s Florida International and Miami (OH) deserve a shot at the national championship. Rather, they deserve to have a sliver of hope when the season starts that they could get a shot.
the little guys aren’t completely left out, that is. I’m sure Casey was ready to pounce on that one. 😉
Just a little aside, Chas. I’m not really sure who the official champ of the WAC is. Nevada, Boise St, and Hawaii were all 7-1 in conference. Hawaii beat Nevada, Boise beat Hawaii, and Nevada beat Boise. That’s a 3 way tie quagmire … similar to the Big 12 South … so maybe if WAC had to declare an overall Champion, it might go to the team who is highest ranked, which would be BSU. Not sure what their tie-breaker is if head-to-head doesn’t work in this case. Wonder if they even have one?
Thanks, Wally. I actually didn’t realize it was a three-way tie. I thought Nevada and Boise St. tied for the top, and Nevada won because they beat Boise St. My apologies to Hawaii for overlooking them.
This is just an example anyway. If Boise St. is the official WAC champion then they’re in as the #6 seed and Virginia Tech is out. And, if the two teams per conference rule is in effect, then Missouri is in as the #10 seed and Michigan St. is out. Again, I’m using BCS rankings just for the sake of example.
I also think an idea would be that the champions from the top two ranked conferences overall get automatic bids, plus the four top-ranked teams that won their conferences. In other words, if South Carolina had beat Auburn (assuming the SEC is the top conference), they don’t have to worry about whether or not they slide ahead of Virginia Tech (or whomever would otherwise be the #6 seed) in the polls.
Alright, I’m getting carried away here. I think all of our ideas are better than what’s in place now. I’m with Wally that it makes me excited just to think of how many great and meaningful college football games this would create…and then I realize that it’s not going to happen.
I wonder if the NCAA honchos who make BCS procedure decisions ever view posts like those on the Pine. They would do well to do so, since there are many good ideas put forth here, some of which have probably never entered their own pea-brained BCS noggins. ND is automatic BCS bowl if ranked 8th in final BCS standings. They probably don’t need the BE, though a UConn-like season would still get them a better bowl in the current system. I still think if ND goes conference, Big 10 is there best choice on an all-sports basis.
Another reason for ND to join a conference…they can only qualify for an at-large berth in all of these potential scenarios if they don’t.
Oh yeah, almost forget…these scenarios are just fantasy.
Chas/Pete … I agree … if one of our proposed playoff scenarios with auto-berths for conference champions is adopted, ND should most certainly join a conference. If it’s my system (8 teams), they should join the Big 10. If it’s Casey’s system where all 16 conference champs are in, they should join the MAC or the C-USA. Ha! 🙂
I think the NCAA honchos, and TV executives, would love it if Notre Dame joined a lesser conference. Heck, they’d probably just give them the 12th automatic bid if they thought they could get away with it.
Whenever two teams play, blowouts can happen. Isn’t that what occurred on MNF? And Oregon put a pretty good hurting on a very good Stanford team earlier this year.
Of course, the possibility increases when you have a group that has had a recruiting advantage for the last two to three decades or maybe more. Fla. International and Miami of Ohio stand very little chance of getting the “blue chip” players because they can not offer those guys a chance at the national title (which by the way is why I have more respect for those guys and find it amusing when players from those schools and conferences not considered “the best” go on and have successful NFL careers).
We could discuss how bringing those 52 colleges/universities into the fold would improve the game overall.
Again, and I have said this already, if the NCAA is going to consider the Sun Belt, MAC, WAC, MWC, and C-USA as FBS/D1A schools, then they should be given a chance. If you are not going to give them a chance, then relegate them to some other division, and give them their own championship. So, yes, I would endorse Fla. Int and Miami of Ohio getting a shot this year. It has to start somewhere. It would be ugly in the short-term, but the possibility is there for long-term gains. And as it has been noted on this site in the past, NCAA D1A football has been out of balance for a significant period of time. Creating a balance would require a tipping in the opposite direction.
I know this rattles the apple cart, but I didn’t realize it would create dramatic allusions to economics. And here I thought only adolescents delved into hyperbole in similar situations.
“Why should Auburn or Oregon have to risk injury against a crap team to get to the round of 8???” reeks of elitism doesn’t it? But then again maybe that’s what college football is all about, elitism. Maybe I am a socialist after all.
“I know this rattles the apple cart, but I didn’t realize it would create dramatic allusions to economics. And here I thought only adolescents delved into hyperbole in similar situations.”
Helmet Sticker…I think? 🙂
Casey’s the same parent who, at the end of the little league or rec basketball season, argued that ALL the players on ALL the teams should get a trophy. Why? Just because they tried.
Sheeeeeeeeesh.
🙂 Thanks Chas. Make mine a buckeye – I wanted to run like Archie Griffin when I was a kid.
Geez…the lessons of that Russian Civ class I took in college really stayed with me. I had an appreciation for Karl Marx.
It’s not like I’m suggesting the teams from the Sun Belt, MAC, C-USA, WAC, or MWC will get a 14-point spot in these games. I am saying put them on the field. And people feel threatened by that?
What do they say about when a person needs to take a discussion and make it personal?
Chas —
Would we consider Archie Griffin a “failed player” in the pros? Or merely “disappointing” ? 🙂