By Paul Gotham
Now that the dust has settled, and the NCAA Championship is behind us, time to take a look at the conferences. Much gets made about the strength of individual conferences and how a team’s strength of schedule impacts tournament status.
Take the numbers from the last ten years. Put them in jar. Shake them up and see what you get.
Number of titles won; numbers of teams making the Final Four; number of Final Four wins – The Atlantic Coast Conference comes out on top.
The ACC might not get the most teams in the tournament. But when it comes to deciding the champion, the ACC, more often than not, has the final say.
Since 2001, ACC teams have climbed the Werner ladder and cut the nets on five occasions: Duke (2001 and 2010), Maryland (2002) and North Carolina (2005 and 2009).
The Big East and SEC each have two titles. Syracuse (2003) and UConn (2004) account for the Big East shares. Florida (2006 and 2007) claimed the title twice for the Southeastern Conference.
Kansas (2008) brought the title to the Big 12.
When it comes to spots in the Final Four, again the ACC heads the list with nine. Along with their two titles, Duke appeared in the 2004 Final Four. UNC reached the final weekend in 2008. Maryland lost to Duke in the ’01 national semi-final. Georgia Tech lost to UConn in the ’04 finals.
The Big East ranks second in this category. Eight times Big East squads reached the Final Four. The power conference provided the widest variety of teams winning regional titles. Marquette joined Syracuse in the ’03 Final Four. UConn and Villanova each lost in ’09 semi-finals. Louisville won four games in the ’05 tournament as did Georgetown in ’07. Of course, West Virginia reached the plateau this year.
Seven times Big 10 teams reached the Final Four. Tom Izzo’s Michigan State Spartans joined the party in ’01, ’05, ’09 and ’10. Indiana (02), Illinois (05) and Ohio State (07) all appeared in the Final Four.
Kansas (02, 03, 08) tops the list of Big 12 teams in the Final Four. Oklahoma (02), Texas (03) and Oklahoma State (04) all won regional championships.
UCLA (06, 07, 08) represented the Pac 10 three times. Arizona lost to Duke in the 2001 finals.
Along with Florida’s two appearances, LSU (06) reached the last weekend of the season.
Butler represented the Horizon League this season. Memphis (08) carried the torch for Conference USA as did George Mason (06) for the Colonial Athletic Conference.
ACC teams won 11 Final Four games over the last ten years. Big East, Big 10 and SEC teams each won four. The Big 12 won three. Pac 10 teams won two. The Horizon League and Conference USA each won a game on the final weekend of the season.
Maybe it’s because the big east is so tough that teams get beat up in conference play, and tournament. Sorry your just not going to convince me that ACC>Big East
Big East is so tough that teams get beat up in conference play? When you are ready to move past the hype, consider this: Clemson 21-10 going into the tournament – 8 of those losses came in conference. Wake Forest 19-10 going into the tournament – 8 of those losses came in conference play. North Carolina State 19-15 going into the NIT – 12 of those losses in ACC play. THAT is beating up on each other.
Consider this, by many accounts, the ACC had a “down” year. And a team from the conference won the NCAA Tournament.
Do you realize the ACC has won as many NCAA Tournaments in the past ten years as the Big East has in the last 30?
Almost forgot…Florida St. 22-9 going into the tournament – 7 came in conference play.
Another way to look at it – of the 12 ACC teams, 10 won 20 or more games this year. 9 of the 16 Big East teams won 20 0r more.
If we’re gonna look historically and go 30 years back, then there’s really no argument … the ACC has been the strongest hoops conference, hands down. If we’re looking at today … now … the debate is more interesting and the Big East makes a better argument than in the past due to several of its teams getting invitations to the Big Dance … were there 8 this year? More? But that’s not the only criteria, and Casey brings up some compelling points … among them: Duke won the NCAA title this year … a year in which UNC didn’t even make the tourney!!! The BE had WVU in the final four … but Syracuse was supposed to be there, too. Had the BE not flamed out so early in the tournament, I’d give them the nod as the better conference this year. But as it is, I gotta say it’s a draw. Duke’s title matches the BE’s 8-9 invites … and they beat WVU in the semi’s.
Note to everyone … I know I don’t have to tell Casey … ALL these teams from the big conferences get “beat up” in conference play … ACC, Big East, Big 10, SEC, etc … doesn’t matter. Not even worth bringing it up.
Yeah, 8 Big East teams made the tournament, and 4 lost in the first round. Another one (Villanova) barely escaped and then lost in the second.
The Big East’s “strength” is a perception. The Big East is a good conference – not the super conference it is made out to be.
Consider this – Villanova went 5-5 in their last ten games and still stayed in the top ten?!?!
Wake Forest goes 5-5 in their last ten, and they are dropped from the rankings.
Perception is not always correct.
I hear ya Casey … but, still, there’s a rather large committee that spends days evaluating which teams are invited to the Big Dance. Media polls/rankings don’t really matter to them. They look at tons of data … RPI, SOS, non-conference record, ETC. So at least I have to give them some credence.
Here’s a question I don’t know the answer to: How did the ACC fare head to head vs Big East teams this year? This data point would be something to consider in coming up with an opinion on the better conference for this season just ended.
There’s also a perception that the ACC is top heavy and really dominated by just two teams … Duke and UNC, whereas in the last decade or so the BE seems to be led by any one of 5-6 teams: UConn, Syracuse, L’ville, Nova, Pitt, WVU, Marquette, G-town … they just seem to spread the wealth around a little better. Over the past 30-35 years, how many different BE teams have won national titles? How many different ACC teams have? Ask the same question for Final Four appearances. I’m not saying this is my criteria for conference strength (balance, yes), but it factors into people’s perceptions.
Okay we’ll go back 30 years (going back any further might be unfair to the BE since the conference has only been around since the mid 70s).
ACC Titles 10 : NC State, Maryland, Duke (4), UNC (4)
Big East 5 : Syracuse, Georgetown, Villanova, UConn (2)
SEC 5 : Arkansas, Kentucky (2), Florida (2)
Big Ten 4 : Michigan, Mich St, Indiana (2)
Big 12 – 2: Kansas (2)
Pac 10 – 2 : UCLA, Arizona
Mountain West: UNLV
Louisville – were they in Conference USA in ’86?
As far as the ACC being top heavy – have you looked at the bottom 3-4 teams in the Big East?
5/6 of the ACC teams won 20 or games this year.
9/16 of the Big East teams won 20 or more games.
First of all, remember that I’m agreeing with you on the historical aspect … ACC rules ! Anyway, I’m thinking you should include Marquette and L’ville as Big East teams … that’s where they are now. What about Final Fours?
What was the ACC’s record vs the Big East THIS YEAR ??? Again … I don’t know the answer, just looking for some objective data.
You ought to know better than anyone that 20 wins, at face value, is meaningless. The NCAA tournament committee sees right through that. Nobody knows that better than Seth Greenberg and his 25-9 Virginia Tech squad who were NOT invited to the Big Dance.
Here’s some data for 2009-10 on Conference RPI rank (Top 4):
Rank Conference Avg. RPI Avg. SOS SOS Rank
1 Big 12 0.5860 0.5770 2
2 Big East 0.5802 0.5786 1
3 Atlantic Coast 0.5751 0.5599 4
4 Southeastern 0.5601 0.5604 3
Louisville was in the Metro Conference until 94-95. Then they joined Conference USA until 2004-05. The Cards have been in the Big East five years.
I disagree with your assessment of a 20 win season in this context. Sure, if you want to take a 20-win team from the Southland conference and try and compare it to the ACC, it’s not going to work. But look at the difference. 5 out of every six games you play in the ACC, you are playing against a team with not only a winning record, but a team that is being considered for the tournament.
Seth greenberg and Va Tech is exactly who I am thinking of when I refer to the mis-perception of the Big East. Big East games are given too much weight and the results of the last 10 NCAA tournaments bear that out.
Tell that to the 12 person committee that does this for a living.
Not sure your take on the last 10 years spells clear superiority for the ACC. They’re #1 thanks to UNC and Duke. But look at the last 5 years … the Big East has had 5 DIFFERENT teams go to the F4. That’s much better balance/depth. Take a look:
Year — Final Four Teams
2010 — Michigan State, West Virginia, Butler, Duke
2009 — Connecticut, Villanova, Michigan State, North Carolina
2008 — UCLA, North Carolina, Memphis, Kansas
2007 — UCLA, Georgetown, Ohio State, Florida
2006 — George Mason, LSU, UCLA, Florida
2005 — Michigan State, Louisville, Illinois, North Carolina
2004 — Duke, Oklahoma State, Georgia Tech, Connecticut
2003 — Texas, Marquette, Kansas, Syracuse
2002 — Kansas, Oklahoma, Indiana, Maryland
2001 — Maryland, Michigan State, Arizona, Duke
ACC: 9, Big East: 8, Big 10: 7, Big 12: 6, Pac 10: 4, SEC: 3, Other: 3.
Wally? The title of the article is Quality over Quantity, right? I included all the details you just noted. Using that tact, the ACC has three different teams that have won national titles. How many other conferences can claim that in the last ten years.
When was the last time a Big East team won a game in the Final Four?