by Wally
I just read a very thoughtful and provocative top-to-bottom analysis of the ND basketball program. Also sheds quite a bit of light on the Big East. The author did quite a bit of research and his very reasonable recommendations are built on that homework. And maybe I’ve been a little too tough on Mike Brey, given some of the things I’ve learned. Anyway, if you follow ND hoops, this is a great read. And in the hours before what I’m afraid I’ll see at Villanova tonight, at least I better understand why ND hoops “is what it is”. Here’s the link from NDNation.com:
https://www.ndnation.com/blog/2010/01/situational-analysis.html
Wally,
I admire Notre Dame and other universities who keep the word college in college sports. That is how college sports can have a positive impact on society.
CBS recently ran an article where Education secretary Arne Duncan expressed concerns about NCAA basketball: https://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/12814239/education-secretary-urges-ncaa-to-make-rules-to-improve-graduation-rates/rss
I realize Duncan’s take pertains to graduation rates, and the above article relates to admission standards, but the two are obviously related.
It is impressive that with all the limitations, Notre Dame has three guys playing in the NBA. Brey gets some credit there. Of course, he didn’t do too well with Chris Thomas.
I DO sympathize with Brey’s situation, but I still look at Duke – high admissions standards, a barely adequate practice facility (Card), and an antiquated arena, yet they are winners/contenders year after year, and if I am not mistaken, do not send scads of players to NBA stardom. Brey’s restrictions can be overcome, but he is not the coach to do it. He has done well under the circumstances, but he has not reached the potential of ND basketball.
That’s a great point, Pete. I think ND SHOULD look at Duke as the standard by which a COLLEGE basketball team can perform given high academic standards, which is Casey’s point as well. So where does one find a Coach K clone?? Duke’s got one and we don’t.
One note of “correction” … I think Duke has maybe 8-10 players in the NBA right now. They clearly get better talent than the Irish … maybe they have the market cornered on smart kids who are also great players. Why can’t Brey get more? Don’t know.
So tonight’s game vs Villanova … just a typical ND road game vs a good BE team … keep it close … keep it close … 10 mins left … here comes the fade …. six mins left … down by 12 …. more fade … lose 90-72. Lack of depth clearly hurts the Irish vs teams like Nova, UConn, etc. And one of the biggest disappointments has been the lack of offensive production from senior Tory Jackson WHEN IT MATTERS. The Irish were outrebounded by 8 (no surprise), but they missed 11 free throws!!! Shot only 63% from the line. Certainly a team “like this” (read “not real athletic”) cannot afford to shoot 63% from the line and dare sniff a win on the road in this league.
Comparing ND to Duke is difficult. Like the article says, ND is a football school. Duke is a basketball school. ND’s basketball program is doing A LOT better than Duke’s football program.
Digger only took the Irish beyond the Sweet Sixteen on two occasions. Digger teams went 5-8 in the NCAA during his last ten years.
But what about Digger’s first 10 years??? His teams were absolutely consistent fixtures in the Top 15 to 20. Plus a number of HUGE wins (UCLA, Virginia, etc), a Final Four, and lots of players off to the the NBA. Heck … even when I was in school during a “down period” when they had guys like Tim Kempton, David Rivers, etc, they were very competitive with the top teams in the country and definitely Top 20 material. And he recruited nationally … not just the best kids out of Goshen or Muncie. Digger had charisma and he made the kids believe they were better than probably they actually were. Mike Brey couldn’t inspire water to be wet !
Much has changed since Digger was successful. For example, DePaul was a regular in the Sweet Sixteen.
“And maybe I’ve been a little too tough on Mike Brey, given some of the things I’ve learned.” Have you already changed your mind back?
Nash is from Queens
Abromaitis – Connecticut
Scott – Texas
Something tells me Digger got out while the getting was good.
Wally? You were at ND from 82-86? Right?
Yes, why?
So we’ve got Duke as the poster child for successful basketball programs at schools with high academic standards FOR ATHLETES, TOO. But they have Coach K … a huge competitive advantage. But there’s Vanderbilt, seemingly always hunting in the Top 20, probably make the NCAA’s 80% of the time. There’s Butler, Gonzaga and Xavier … all private, 2 of them Catholic, all of them arguably more successful than ND over the past 5-10 years.
Casey — I don’t see what DePaul’s demise over the last 10-15 years has to do with ND, or why you would tie the two together. DePaul is a city-based Catholic school with only basketball and not so high academic standards for it’s athletes. I’d compare it to Marquette in terms of demographics, but certainly not in terms of hoops success. In some ways, DePaul’s basketball fate has mirrored Notre Dame’s in football, but much worse. Since the days of Ray Meyer and to some extent Joey Meyer, they have whiffed on the coaching hires and their facilities/set-up is way substandard. But how they can falter so badly in CHICAGO with all that local talent is a shame.
My point remains, which is the same in the NDNation article, ND should be able to do better in basketball than they have. As the article suggests and Pete has pointed out, part of it is coaching/recruiting/developing (Brey) and the other part involves the ND Athletic Dept making men’s hoops a higher priority via budgets, facilities, etc.
Now why is ND very successful on the women’s side ??? National title ~7 years ago, just about always in the Top 20, #3 in the country right now.
Money – “it always ends making you blue as hell.” In honor of J.D.
There is a lot more money to be made in the men’s game than women’s.
My reference to Depaul was random at best but I was trying to show the changing landscape. ND has held pat with academic standards while others…?
Butler, Gonzaga, and Xavier – basketball is KING on all of those campuses. That is why I love them so.
Maybe that’s the whole point … “basketball is King at those places”. Notre Dame obviously has the resources to pretty much do whatever it wants in terms of funding … a clear advantage that many schools don’t have. But not only is basketball not King at ND, it’s not Queen or Jack either … maybe Court Jester. My plea is for the ND administration to promote men’s basketball from Court Jester to Queen. Let’s make it a higher priority and see what happens. And I’m saying fund it completely, get the newer facilities, pay to get top coaches, boost their recruiting budgets … don’t lower academic standards.