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Open Thread Thursday | October 22nd, 2009

October 22, 2009 by Paul Gotham 21 Comments

bugs-bunny-maroonLoyal readers here is your chance to start the discussion. Pick a topic. Join in with a topic. Keep a discussion going. Participation lets everyone know what is important to you.

Filed Under: Pine Pieces

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Comments

  1. Smitty says

    October 22, 2009 at 10:06 am

    Cheers to the Philadelphia Phillies for winning the NL Pennant. With a deep lineup and great starting pitching – this should be a great World Series.

    Up and down – this lineup is almost as deep as the Yankees. I said – almost. Their starting pitching took a turn when they acquired Cliff Lee.

  2. bill r says

    October 22, 2009 at 10:30 am

    I think after all the bad calls this year, baseball will have to introduce some sort of replay judgment process. All season long it has been terrible in MLB, and the playoffs are only magnifying things. I don’t blame the umps entirely, but you could, say, ask Youkillis about a few plays at first, or any Twins fan about what constitutes a foul ball, or what a double play means to an Angel, etc. Maybe the outcomes of the games would have been for the most part, the same regardless of calls.

    Or maybe we should provide guide dogs and white canes with red tips to the umps. Imagine, “What was that Sparky, he touched the bag first?” “Woof woof woof!” Girardi now coming out to argue that call, and whoa, did you see that german shepard pull off of his leash and go after him? That’s going to require stitches. Back to the game in just a moment.

  3. Wally says

    October 22, 2009 at 11:13 am

    This might be part of the problem … unlike other pro sports leagues that set their playoff referees based on PERFORMANCE, MLB assigns their playoff refs based on seniority. They may be forced to do that cuz of what’s written in the union contract. Well … duh … no wonder were seeing shoddy umpiring in the playoffs!!

  4. EvanP says

    October 22, 2009 at 11:49 am

    I play softball. There. I’ve said it. I’m over 40, slowing down. I play softball. I really started to enjoy it after I concluded that the umps will stink and that’s part of the game. We have one umpire behind the plate and is usually too far away to make an accurate call at second. And isn’t always able to see if the runner tagged up properly. It’s just part of the game.
    But the MLB playoffs have 6 umpires. When one screws a call, why can’t one of the other 5 step and an rectify it? This is the playoffs for crying out loud. Why don’t we embrace technology and us it for replays. Don’t give me that “ I’m a traditional-ist” crap either.
    If that were the case, then the MLB would be filled with all white players.
    It’s very disappointing and hard to enjoy when a bad call is obviously made and confirmed on instant replay and the umps wont look at it or even confer.

    I’m not going to accept it as part of the game like a do with softball.
    I am not and will not compare my $35 a season 6-12 foot slow pitch old guy softball team to the majors. I expect a lot more for this show (and that is what it is, an entertainment show). The company is deteriorating fast and they need to clean up their act. Why not hire some decent workers?

    What’s the point of watching? It’s not good anymore. It’s a joke.

    And one more thought because I’m all jacked up on morning coffee: Where are the conspiracy theorists? Anybody think the fix in? With the stock market tanking, maybe the Umpires Union has their pension on the Yankees to win it this year? Just thought. Not so crazier things have happened.

  5. Casey says

    October 22, 2009 at 1:01 pm

    Evan,

    Mind if I get name of your coffee choice? That’s bringin’ it with a vengeance. Some where Keith Jackson is giving you a whooooooooooaaaa nellie! And that is meant in every positive sense of the phrase.

    Just last week I couldn’t have a conversation about baseball without discussing Mauer’s double that was called foul. Many people referred to it as ‘the worst call in the history of American sports.’ One week later and the whatever you call it that happened at third base is the new ‘worst call ever.’

    I think I’m going fishing when I get out of work.

  6. Casey says

    October 22, 2009 at 1:03 pm

    Almost forgot – is it a little weird that we are now watching an umpire’s take in a post-game conference?

  7. EvanP says

    October 22, 2009 at 2:45 pm

    Yeah. Gotta learn to real-it-in. Thing is, unlike most people on this board and talk radio, I only really follow 2 sports related ideas with a passion; Baseball and The New York Football Giants (though you would never know looking at my dismal lifelong placing in fantasy baseball. But I digress).

    So when something is tainted, broken, messed up and just plain screwy when there is a solution that easily fixes it, it really gets my goat. A lot of time, investment, passion, emotion and time (did I say time) is put into baseball and too have it screwed up by a lousy broken .10 washer bothers me.

    Now, if I spread out this kind of effort over minor league Rookie A-ball and college sports with the occasional European Soccer League and Billiards circuit, I may not care as much.

    But I don’t.
    So I do.

  8. Casey says

    October 22, 2009 at 3:04 pm

    Evan

    Reeling it in is not needed here. Please rant to your heart’s content.

  9. Wally says

    October 22, 2009 at 3:29 pm

    Taking Evan’s point a bit further about things that are obviously broken while there’s an equally obvious solution to fix it that is being ignored … should we now start talking about the college “bowl system” and lack of a playoff in NCAA Div 1 football?

    GO BOISE STATE! Mess it up for all of the “Big Boys” !!!

  10. bill r says

    October 22, 2009 at 5:43 pm

    “is it a little weird that we are now watching an umpire’s take in a post-game conference?”

    Wow, I wasn’t even aware of that, probably because with these marathon games, I am too far passed out on the couch to hit the volume up a little on the remote. Nothing says let’s play ball like 2 innings an hour, or a 7th inning stretch at 11:30.

  11. Casey says

    October 22, 2009 at 6:02 pm

    I’m not exactly seeing the post game conferences live. I usually catch them on the highlights in the morning.

    Remiss in my duties – Evan – helmet sticker for that top notch rant!

  12. Casey says

    October 22, 2009 at 7:51 pm

    Bill – by the way, can you please write an article? I haven’t busted a gut all week. I’m due already. 🙂

  13. Smitty says

    October 22, 2009 at 10:28 pm

    If you want to talk about important umpire mistakes – look no further then the missed called third strike against Jorge Posada. Completely changed the outcome of that inning.

    I know called strikes are objective, but that ball was clearly a strike. Something needs to be done to make the strike zone more consistent.

  14. Smitty says

    October 22, 2009 at 10:32 pm

    Job Wanted:

    Left handed professional pitcher. Started career as a starter, but have made transition to reliever. Tough on left handed hitters. Decent curveball and mediocre fastball at best. Willing to throw every day and willing to throw arm off. Warning though: Have a tough time getting outs in key situations.

    Sincerely,

    Darren Oliver

  15. Smitty says

    October 22, 2009 at 10:35 pm

    Correcting myself.. Calling strikes is subjective..

  16. bill r says

    October 22, 2009 at 11:18 pm

    I’ll fire up the typewriter tomorrow, once i get past this zombie-like trance I am in at the moment. Although I will say it’s nice when the 7th inning stretch coincides with the march from the couch to the bed upstairs.

  17. Chas says

    October 23, 2009 at 12:25 pm

    First of all, I think Evan and I must play in the same softball league, because that part of his rant sounds oh so familiar.

    Secondly, Smitty bringing called strikes into this discussion is taking it too far. For every borderline call against one team, there’s one that the other team could complain about. I honestly can’t understand how so many fans can watch a baseball game and assume it’s easy to get 100% of ball-strike calls correct.

    On the other hand, I think the McClelland missed call at third on Cano/Posada is one that could have been discussed. In the very least, it was a confusing play. McClelland was probably too busy wondering what in the heck Posada was doing overrunning third base and up the left field line to realize that Cano was being an idiot too. Two stupid baserunning mistakes in the matter of seconds is enough to confuse any umpire trying to take it all in. It was clearly his call, but he could have saved face by referring to the confusion as his reason for asking for help. However, it’s possible that no other umpire could have seen for certain that Cano was off the base when tagged, but there’s a pretty good chance the home plate umpire saw it clearly.

    The runner tagging up call is one I think they can add to the list of reviewable calls, but you have to realize that reviewing every call is not that easy. And, I’m not even talking about the fact that it’s going to delay the game well past Bill R’s bed time, but there are a lot of situations that are going to be analogous to when they blow the whistle in football. That is, they won’t be able to reverse certain calls because of subsequent action…or non-action, like if they call a ball foul then realize it was fair.

  18. EvanP says

    October 23, 2009 at 12:58 pm

    Chas – Just like in football, you can ask for a review. If you are correct, the ruling on the field gets overturned and play continues. If you are wrong. You are penalized one out the next time you are at the plate. I’m just throwing it out there. I’m sure you could fine tune it if you really wanted to start instant replay. Football figured it out and that aint the thinkin’ man’s game.

  19. Chas says

    October 23, 2009 at 1:59 pm

    Yeah, but my point is…well, let’s try a couple of examples:

    In football, the runner fumbles, but the refs rule him down and blow the whistle. The defense recovers, but since they blew the whistle, they can’t change the call, because the offensive players didn’t try to recover the fumble when they heard the whistle.

    In baseball, there’s a play at the plate and the runner’s called out for the third out. The batter-runner was in the middle of trying to advance from first to second, but stops. Replay rules the runner was actually safe. What do you do with the batter-runner? I guess you could have the umpires make another judgment call (another call that could be argued) as to what to do with that runner, but I’m pretty certain MLB doesn’t want to correct one call and create another controversial one in the process.

    That said, the more devil’s advocate scenarios I try to think of, the more I realize that most of them could be dealt with. So, it probably does come down to the time factor, in which case maybe you’re right about the idea that you get two or three per game. I don’t know about the one-out penalty. Maybe the answer is you’re only allowed to be wrong in an appeal once per game. If you’re right, and the call gets overturned, you can keep appealing calls until you get one wrong. Then, you’re done for the game.

  20. EvanP says

    October 23, 2009 at 2:16 pm

    “Maybe the answer is you’re only allowed to be wrong in an appeal once per game. If you’re right, and the call gets overturned, you can keep appealing calls until you get one wrong. Then, you’re done for the game.”
    Keep rolling till you crap out. I like it.

  21. Smitty says

    October 23, 2009 at 3:01 pm

    Chas – I wrote that in the heat at the moment after I watched the Yankees score 6 runs, in an inning I thought the Angels were to get out of.. especially if that strike was called out Posada.

    Strikes are way too subjective and couldn’t possibly be reviewed. I do blame TV networks for having the strike zone monitors up – I think we all know each umpires’ strike zones differ from one to another – and yet networks instigate us into a frenzyy by putting that strike zone screen up. Worked on me last night.

    As for reviews, I think they have to have them – but there has to be a line drawn. Foul balls, close plays at each base or whether it was a catch.. First 7 innings, each manager gets 1 challenge. After the 7th inning – it comes down from an umpire up in the box looking at replay.

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