How things have changed. I find myself in the position of defending the Notre Dame Fightin’ Irish. I almost feel unworthy of such a venture. I did not attend ND. As a matter fact at one time I tossed barbs in the direction of Notre Dame. I remember taunting my dad when Texas jumped out to a lead in the famous “chicken soup” game. God taught me a lesson that day: cheer for the Irish or keep your trap shut! That was the late 70’s, and I wasn’t even a teenager. I can’t be held responsible for my actions. I cheered for Archie Griffin and the OSU Buckeyes. Yeah, I admit it. Whew! I feel better now that that skeleton is out of the closet.
At some point in the 80’s being associated with Ireland seemed en vogue (probably had something to do with Guinness stout). My Anglican/Slavic heritage would not allow a direct connection, so I involved myself with so many things Irish: the Dady Brothers, the Irish Festival, Bailey’s Irish Crème, Guinness, and ultimately Notre Dame. I remember feeling sorry for the plight of Gerry Faust. I reveled in the arrival of Lou Holtz. Then I married an Irish/American lass, and now I have attended more Fightin’ Irish games than any human being with my resume should be allowed. Perhaps I should let this cup pass, but I think not. Wu and JD, (wow – after decades of calling you by your nickname that rhymes with Smooch, I am jealous of the Salinger reference for your blog ID) I have to respond to your assertions of “excruciatingly overrated” and Boise State versus ND.
First: excruciatingly overrated? Hmmmmm…..I need to take back what I said yesterday. Actually, I think ND is perfectly ranked: number 11 in both the ESPN and CNN coaches poll. We all knew the number two ranking in the pre-season polls was a little shaky. Wu you are right when you say that ND is not up there with the big boys. But look at numbers twelve through twenty-five: West Virginia, Arkansas, Virginia Tech, Wake Forest, Texas, Rutgers, Boston College, and Tennessee to name a few. Does ND deserve to be ahead of them? Before you answer think about this: The Volunteers lost to Penn St. in the Outback Bowl by a score of 20-10. ND beat the Nittany Lions 41-17. BC needed Navy to implode in the last two minutes of the Meineke Bowl to win 25-24. The Irish topped the Midshipmen 38-14. What about West Virginia you say? Yeah, they needed one of the largest comebacks in bowl history to beat Georgia Tech by three. The Irish went on the road to beat the Ramblin’ Wreck in their season opener. Overrated? I think not. The Irish’s three losses: LSU, Michigan, and USC – all teams in the top ten. The Irish’s ten wins were against teams they should have beaten. And they did. Can USC say the same? The real crime is if the Irish fall below fifteen in any poll.
Charlie Weis overrated? Hmmmm….sounds like a frustrated Bills’ fan who has an ax to grind with the former offensive coordinator of the AFC East rival New England Patriots. Actually, Charlie Weis takes everyone’s best shot. You want overrated? Let’s start with Pete Carroll. The USC coach gets his boys sky high for ND. The Trojans use the Irish for a blocking sled. Then what does USC do? They lose to UCLA. By the way ND beat the Bruins. And oh yeah FSU threw UCLA around like rag dolls in the Emerald Bowl. With your National Chan’ship hopes on the line how do you NOT get your players to win that game. More overrated? How ‘bout Lloyd Carr? Man, can he get his guys up for a game against the Irish. How ‘bout OSU? How’bout the Rose Bowl? People wanted Michigan in the title game. The fourteen point deficit in the Rose Bowl was not indicative of how poorly they played. Yeah – how poorly Michigan played…not how well USC played!
On top of that Lloyd and Carroll don’t have one obstacle that Weis encounters on a daily basis: academics. I haven’t researched any empirical evidence (Wally please help me here), but does anyone think the student-athletes at Michigan and USC have the same expectations as those at ND? Last time I checked Brady Quinn was NOT taking ballroom dancing this year. Or that he needed to spend some time off-campus at a hotel, so that he could get away from the pressure. Hmmmm…who paid for the room fees? Wu you make a great point that ND doesn’t have the horses in the NFL like Florida, Miami, and Auburn. Only Julius Jones, Luke Pettigout, and David Givens (when healthy) come to mind. ND has some limits that those other institutions don’t have. Do I think Jamarcus Russell is an above average college quarterback? Heck yeah! Do I think he might have a solid NFL career? More than likely. Could ND have recruited him? Therein lies the rub. Weis is dealing with that everyday, and it doesn’t help that Ty Willingham spent more time on the golf course than on the recruiting trail.
On to Boise State. I love the Boise State story. Who doesn’t? I cheered for them. Who didn’t outside of the state of Oklahoma? I am confused as to how the Boise State scenario would serve as an argument FOR the BCS. Wouldn’t it do just the opposite? Wouldn’t it make you say: “Man I wish the Broncos had a shot at those big guys.” I would have loved to have seen it; especially if Pete Carroll had to try and get his guys up for the likes of Boise State. As it stands now the Broncos will probably get filed under the category of a fluke. They played a weak schedule and beat one (Oklahoma) maybe two (Oregon State-USC’s other loss) tough opponents. Unless they follow up this season with another strong showing, no one will give them any credibility. Not at least the credibility that George Mason earned by winning four games in a tournament.
Before we get all gushy about Boise State, let’s put things in perspective. How do you think Boise State would have fared if they started out the year on the road against Georgia Tech? Then they played Penn State the next weekend. After that they did battle with Michigan. And on the seventh day they rested on the road against Michigan State. To round it all off they travel to SoCal and play USC. Would Boise State have survived that schedule unscathed? If they can survive, all the more power to them.
Thing is Boise State is 13 and 0 and all they are is a blip on the screen… as are too many other schools. Give me a playoff. And make it sixteen teams – one from each conference and five at-large. Forget the baby steps. If we are going to do something, go all the way.
I tried to take Wally’s advice and “move on.” But this topic is really too good to let die. Besides, after four consecutive nights of less than five hours sleep I finally feel rested enough for lucid thought. Who said sleep is overrated(Crossword Pete)? Maybe I’m having some sort of Ray Kinsella thing. Hey DaD!!!! Go Irish!!!!
By the way, I am calling everybody out. You can very easily sidestep this one by saying: “Oh, he’s having another rant.” Or maybe I am Jack Nicholson and “you can’t handle the truth!”
Damn, I’m thirsty! Time for a beer!!!!!
Salinger says
Casey, not many have known you as long as I have and I cannot believe I did not remember your Archie Griffin/OSU days. There is a lot from those days that we both should try to forget. I will give you a pass on that one though because I believe that was also around the time you were into Def Leppard and “Conan the Barbarian”. If you all want proof I have the Aquinas “Arete” yearbook signed by Paul saying that we would get together at the Def Leppard concert over the summer. Unfortunately I was not able to get a ticket. Just for the record this is not a slam on Paul – we have all had our moments of temporary insanity. Some things haven’t changed though – we still occasionally get together and have a beer, just not at a Def Leppard concert. Anyways I believe this is a sports forum so back to that. Does anyone really care about the national title game. Who is playing in it? and why should I care? Okay, you all may be right on the playoff system. If this truly was the final of the playoff series I would definitely give this game more than a passing glance. One thing I do absolutely hate about the “Bowl” season is that it lasts longer than the Christmas shopping season which this year started with Christmas trees being hauled out at the same time that the shelves at Wegmans were stocked with Tootsie Rolls for Halloween.
Time to go watch the second half of the Colts game – not exactly what I envisioned for the game.
I leave with this thought from the great Union Clad lead singer from DL, “Pour Some Sugar on Me”
Casey says
Sally,
That’s it? “You all may be right on the playoff system?” YOu are going to leave it at that? Aren’t we supposed to haggle over this?
Didn’t get a chance to watch tonight’s games closely. JV hoops and work party for the better half. I know the cow pokes lost. I was wonderin’. Has anybody considered the possibility of a coach snapping on one of these sideline reporters? With the ‘pokes’ losin a close one, the chances had to be high for a tunamelt – down . Can you just see it. “So coach what happened tonight?” Then there’s this moment of awkward silence.Parcells is leaning in to hear over the din of crowd noise. He kinda furls his brow as he waits to make sure that he really heard the question. Gives a moment for the talking head to retract the question…and yup that second is lost. Parcells: “How am I supposed to know. You’re the reporter. You tell me what you think…” And on it goes. That would be some pretty good entertainment.
I would care about the OSU / Florida game if I could manage to stay awake into the second half.
Did anyone read the article about the players complaining that they are not getting their cut of the Bowl Collusion Syndicate money? Props to Troy Smith for speaking up and saying he didn’t mind. Of course he’s guaranteed a few more dollars than the rest when it comes time for draft day.
“You’re bringin’ on the heartache”
Wally says
Paul — Very well written piece … don’t think I could’ve done any better as an ND supporter. I’d like to add a few comments to add a little color and further emphasize a few things:
1) More is expected of ND for a number of reasons, such as their independent status and solo TV deal with NBC to name a few. This “uniqueness” brings severely elevated levels of scrutiny and criticism. You did a good job of enumerating what ND did on the field this year in just looking objectively at the football team. They are currently a Top 15 team, but that’s it. I think they’d beat Wake Forest and would give L’ville, Boise, Arkansas, Oklahoma, etc a great game.
2) Yes, part of the reason ND has a talent deficiency vs the current “powers” (USC, LSU, Ohio St, etc) is indeed because of significantly higher academic standards for its athletes. But that’s just part of the reason. As I stated before, the other reason is that Ty Willingham was one of the laziest SOBs ever to recruit at a major Div 1 program and the Irish are paying for it right now and have been for the past 3 seasons. Save for Quinn, Shark, Carlson and a few others, the upperclasses are void of “Top 10 talent” and depth. A top-notch, hard working coach like Weis can reverse this trend, but it takes time. I think we will see ND really compete as a Top 5 program in 2008, when the current frosh are juniors, and they should have some staying power as long as Charlie & Co keep putting forth the effort.
3) It is quite true that there are some blue-chip prospects that ND can’t touch due to academics. It’s been said that ND’s recruiting pool is about 35% the size of what Ohio St’s and LSU’s is. Maurice Clarett is the poster child representing the difference between OSU and ND … awfully talented, but a total zero upstairs and a ‘really big jerk’ to boot.
4) ND beat Michigan in 2006 pretty handily. Oh … I guess the skunkbears just weren’t very good then. Oh … so it is possible to become an “elite” team in a season or two. Oh … Michigan isn’t playing in the title game tonight?? What, then, is Michigan?
5) Jamarcus Russell has the tools to be an awesome NFL QB. The Raiders will probably take him, which makes you wonder if he’ll ever develop between the ears. Just remember … he faced ND’s crappy defense last week and had a better offense surrounding him. He didn’t have to face LSU’s defense like Quinn did. I’m not saying Russel won’t be good, but let’s not annoint him the next Joe Montana already.
Out. Wally.
Chris Wuest says
Wow.
I swear if Charlie Weiss offered all you Notre Dame fans “special kool-aide”, you would drink it. It’s like he’s the second coming of Jim Jones or something.
Pauly, I could care less whether Notre Dame wins the national title or goes 0-11. We could play the this-team-beat-that-team thing all day. But how much impact does that have on game day…when things really matter…and when ND really craps themselves.
TV Timeout – A diehard Notre Dame fan just walked by my desk and pursued intrest in your article. He walked away thinking you were drunk.
There is no way on this green earth that if the pope is catholic then Pete Carroll is overrated.
Pete Carroll is 59-6 in the past five years with no seasons having more than 2 loses. Oh and the National Titles. Oops, I almost forgot about those when I was thinking about overratedness. Couple Heisman’s to.
Yeah he gets players. Yeah they play in the PAC-10. Bottom line is this: HE WINS. Paul – HE WINS. W-I-N-S. It’s not his fault he gets studs. Oh wait, yeah it is his fault – because he is a great coach that demands respect from his players and has built a great program. Players want to go there because maaaybe they want to go to the NFL and makes some ching-ching RATHER than sit at a workdesk from 9-5 and type on this website all day.
Another TV timeout for Pauly to swig some more of that Jack Daniels. How’s the Jack?
One last thought: If ND played in a conference such as ohhh lets say the Big 10 or SEC, how would they do? Ha Ha….little more grueling than being one of those independents, huh Pauly?
WUEST – OUT
Casey says
overrated adj. being overestimated; given too much credit.
For example – being the coach of a team with two Heisman Trophy winners in the backfield with a potential third if you could get him to return to increase your team’s 55% graduation rate. Needing the referees to suffer from amnesia(we forgot about that rule) as your tailback shoves your qb from behind into the end zone as time runs out. Then qualifying for the national chan’ship which is basically a home game and coming home with the runner-up trophy.
Aaron says
I think some of you have been sneaking in and trying some of that Notre Dame “Kool-Aid”..
First off, I kinda remember those OSU days for Casey.. It was right around the time he would give me a hockey stick down, a set of old hockey pads and concrete walls wer okay for checking.. Makes my thought process a little longer to this day..
First off – overrated coach ? Try Bill Parcells.. He hasn’t won anything since his Giant days and most of that was a product of the coaches under him (See Bill Belichek, Charlie Weiss and Romeo Crenel). His teams now are sloppy, mistake ridden and he can’t get a team out of the first round.. People continue idolize the guy, but fact is – he hasn’t delivered in years.
As for Pete Carroll.. Apparently some people don’t remember his days a head coach in the NFL. The fact was he couldn’t get the respect from NFL players.. He was driven out of New England and he was a laughing stock.. Players thought he wanted to be buddy buddy with him and they didn’t go for it.. But that buddy/buddy thing works in college.. Is he a great recruiter ? Sure, most teams would have loved to have to QBs and RBs coming out of his school.. But let’s not get to far ahead of ourselves before we say great coach..
One more thing.. As I was home, sick on New Years day.. Not alcohol influenced unfortunately.. I looked forward to day of flipping the channel from bowl game to bowl game. But it was not to be.. Why do bowl games get their own night. Part of the magic with bowl games was watching them all on New years day.. A day of nothing but football.. And now the championship game is on Jan. 8th ? Give me a freakin’ break. If they wait a little longer, they could play it the day before the Super Bowl. Hell, the break between their last game and bowl game is about the same length as their entire season… or so it seems…
Aaron says
How many rule violations have been USC been able to get away with.. Reggie Bush’s family accepting money from agents.. Dwayne Jarrett penalize for paying $400 a month in a $2000 a month apartment.. Matt Leinart’s dad picked up the tab.. Sanchez – back up QB brought up on battery charges..
When USC has to forfeit those national championships because Reggie Bush was ineligible, will Pete Carroll still be a great coach?
Sounds like he is running a program that is about one step away from NCAA sanctions.. Pete Carroll = Jim Harrick maybe?
Casey says
Add to rules violations equation – Pete Carroll+Jim Harrick=Jim Tressel
Aaron says
The hype, the build up and for what? A 41-14 spanking by the Florida Gators..
Florida looked phenomenal last night, – Ohio State didn’t look like it belonged. But it is time we do something about the college football schedule.
51 days.. That was the number of days between football games for the Buckeyes. I am not sure what the number for Florida was, but it had to be in the 30’s as they had one more conference game and then the conference championship. I don’t think it was a deciding factor last night as Florida was just that dominant, but I think it was a major contributor.. That was not the same Ohio State was saw all season. Although lost Ginn early on took something away from the OSU as well..
The NFL doesn’t give any of its team that luxury. And we know we are never going to see a playoff – and if that is the case then let’s fix this thing.. Teams should be finishing their seasons at the same time..Same amount of time off..
Congrats to Florida.. They certainly were dominant.. But college football needs to start taking a look at itself..