By Kyle Soppe
LSU has all but clinched a spot in the BCS title game, as the seem to be more impressive with each passing week. A rematch with Alabama seems likely, but Houston still has a doughnut if the right hand column, which will lead to endless debating. Georgia is a team getting very hot at the right time, and continued their rise among our “experts”. Arkansas was dominated in their showdown with LSU, but remained in our top 10. Stanford is fourth in our poll, but this seems like a three team race (if you believe Houston will get bonus points for being undefeated). Hate to say it, as most of our pollsters voiced a displeasure about seeing a rematch for the BCS title, but we are headed that way. Michigan State (8points) received the most points amongst the four vote getters who did not make it into our top 15. Is this how the top 15 should look? Is the pickin splinter staff struggling to get it right? However you feel about our latest poll, let us know, here on the pine.
| Teams | Points |
| LSU (6) | 90 |
| Alabama | 81 |
| Houston | 77 |
| Stanford | 69 |
| Oklahoma State | 58 |
| Virginia Tech | 56 |
| Oregon | 50 |
| Arkansas | 48 |
| Georgia | 45 |
| Oklahoma | 42 |
| Boise State | 34 |
| South Carolina | 24 |
| USC | 21 |
| Wisconsin | 16 |
| Kansas State | 11 |
So Nick Saban is imploring voters to pick the two best teams? So he has now turned into a used car salesman since his team is done playing? I think Pete has already said it, but he rubs me the wrong way. Casey – were we in Pittsburgh when Al McGuire said the line, “He is the kind of guy that will steal your eyeball out of the socket, and then tell you that you look good without it .” ?
That is the feeling I get with Saban.
Here is the thing Nick – it doesn’t always workout that the two best teams make the championship game. It happens in sports all of the time. You are not playing in the SEC championship game and that hurts you. Hopefully Oklahoma State has an impressive game against Oklahoma and can sway voters to put them in the National Championship. I know I am grasping at straws, but anything to have Nick Saban go away.
Overall I do like where the poll is. I am a little surprised that Arkansas remained in the Top 10 after the beatdown by LSU, but I am good where they are.
Did Matt Barkley make a last minute bid for Heisman votes? 423 yards passing and 6 TDs – granted it was against UCLA, but have to think it earned him an invitation to NYC.
Speaking of UCLA – so long Rick Neuheisel. Remember when he was one of the up and coming coaches in the college foot ball world?
Whatever way you slice it, does anyone see LSU losing?
Rick Neuheisel has never been the same since leaving Colorado. Sometimes it’s easy to see why some coaches like Petersen at BSU or Patterson at TCU don’t jump at “golden opportunities”. BTW, I’m real happy that Urban Meyer’s health problems cleared up so quickly and he spent so much more time with his family while working the countryside for ESPN, not to mention how much he will do for his youngest by uprooting him from Fla to Ohio. The sting of Urban’s spurning of ND will last a long time. I wish him exactly what he deserves at OSU and I don’t believe he deserves success. Wonder if he’ll bring his NCAA record of players arrested skill to his home state?
Casey, I do not see LSU losing and I ‘d like to see them spank Alabama except as stated elsewhere I don’t believe Alabama deserves the spot over a Bedlam-victorious Ok St.
I am noting a little sarcasm there Pete regarding Urban Meyer. It is interesting that he took the job without knowing the sanctions Ohio State will receive from the NCAA. They must have some assurances that they will not be major sanctions for him to take the job already.
You are right about Neuheisel. He had moderate success at Washington before the office pool scandal forced him to resign. Personally I think he was doomed from the start at UCLA. Even with NCAA sanctions, the Bruins are not out-recruiting USC. It will have to be a big time coach that will swing the balance in Los Angeles. Not sure who it will be? Could Jon Gruden be lured?
Maybe a Jim Tressel? It will be interesting to see.
I was thinking the same thing about Meyer and so were a lot of other people. I heard sound bytes from his interview. Sounds good in word, but….
I find it ironic that it’s the computer polls that could give Pete what he wants, by vaulting Oklahoma State over Alabama, if they beat Oklahoma. I doubt it, but it could happen.
Oklahoma State is actually ranked #5, behind Stanford and Virginia Tech (There are people who think Va. Tech is better than Okla. St.? Seriously?) in the human polls. In 2 of the 6 computer polls, they’re at #2. If they beat Alabama, that could improve their #3 standing in the other 4 computer polls.
Will it be enough to overcome the voters who don’t realize they’ve played a much tougher schedule than Stanford and are a way better team than Virginia Tech? I doubt it, but it will be funny if the Pine’s grumpy old man (stated in the most reverent way, of course) gets his wish as a result of something he’s been railing against. 🙂
How wide (if any) is the gap between Ok. State and Va. Tech? The Hokies have beaten two ranked (according to other polls) teams on the road in the last three weeks including a 38-0 win over then-#24 Virginia. Va Tech doesn’t score as many points as Ok. State. They also don’t give up as many.
Well, let’s look at victories over BSC-ranked opponents:
Oklahoma State: Texas, Missouri, Baylor, Kansas State
Virginia Tech: none
OK, Virginia and Georgia Tech are probably as good as teams in the 20-25 positions, but so is Tulsa. So, that’s 5 quality victories vs. 2.
Their losses are about equal. Oklahoma State lost on the road to a solid at best Iowa State team, but Virginia Tech got blown out at home by Clemson, who has proven to be far from a powerhouse.
So, yes, I’d say it’s pretty clear Oklahoma State is decidedly better than Virginia Tech.
Texas has four losses. That, in and of itself, might be enough to debunk the BCS formula.
Missouri has five losses including one to Arizona State who lost to…UCLA.
All three of Clemson’s losses are on the road.
Not sure where this belongs in the formula, but the 28 points Ok. State surrendered to Kansas is the most the Jayhawks have scored (with the exception of an overtime game against Baylor) since October first when they lost to TTech 45-34.
You can cherry-pick all you want, but Oklahoma State has played a much tougher schedule than Virginia Tech. In fact, the Big 12 is probably better than the SEC this year.
Chas – I wouldn’t argue with you when comparing Oklahoma State’s schedule vs. Virginia Tech. But I think you will have a lot of people disagreeing you on that last statement. The two conferences are very different. The SEC has more teams built around their defense where the Big 12 is very much a wide-open offensive conference. The biggest piece of evidence is the fact that one of the 3 Big 12 teams in the Top 15 (not Pickin’ Splinters) has two losses in which they gave up 110 points (Kansas State).
I don’t think it is a mistake that the SEC has 5 teams in the Top 15. The gap has narrowed considerably, but the SEC is still the better conference.
Chas, the irony of my situation has not escaped me. I am now at the mercy of computer polls as you astutely noted. The human pollsters have got caught up in all of the hype, emotions, and politics of this whole thing. They are the ones who always put Boise or TCU or Houston just out of the picture, so even an occasional high ranking by a computer couldn’t save them. They are the ones who believe the SEC is supreme. I guess it just goes to show that the
BC(mes)S is faulty for (m)any number of reasons.
Keep in mind, Smitty, that the SEC has 12 teams and the Big 12 only has 10 (hmmm). So, that’s 30% of the Big 12 teams in the top 15 and just under 40% of the SEC teams. Not as big an edge as 5 to 3 would otherwise indicate.
The Big 12 is definitely stronger at the bottom than the SEC. I’ll concede that it’s a virtual tossup as to which conference is better, but the SEC is not the clear-cut best conference.
The RPI rankings give the SEC a slight edge, but the interesting thing is they rank the Big 12 slightly better in SOS, yet the Big 12 is 27-3 (.900) non-conference and the SEC is 42-6 (.875). Those two factors combined would lead me to believe the Big 12 is better, but I might be missing something.
So you use the fact that the SEC has two more teams in their conference then the BIg 12, but when it comes to fact that the SEC plays 18 more non-conference game schedule – you use that to bolster your argument?
I think it is safe to say that if you added 18 more non-conference games to the Big 12 and assuming that they don’t pick cupcakes – the Big 12 would probably lose a couple more games.
I don’t dispute that there is huge difference between the two conferences. I just think the SEC is slightly better. I don’t think the SEC is light years ahead, just slightly better. But let’s have some fun with this on a hypothetical level. What if the Top 5 teams from each conference went head to head?
LSU vs. Oklahoma State ( the National Championship game I want to see)
Alabama vs. Oklahoma
Arkansas vs. Kansas State
Georgia vs. Baylor
South Carolina vs. Texas
By the way, I am not saying this is how you decide which is the better conference, but let’s have some fun with this. Realistically, I think the SEC wins 3, if not 4, of those games.
What say you??
OK, you make a good point, but part of the 18-game difference is that there are more teams. Still, SEC teams play four non-conference games each and Big 12 teams play three, and more often than not they’re easier games.
I’ll play along. Sure, I think the SEC is stronger at the top and they probably win three or four of those games. But, what about these matchups?
Ole Miss vs. Kansas
Tennessee vs. Texas Tech
Kentucky vs. Iowa State
Miss. St. vs. Texas A&M
Vanderbilt vs. Missouri
I think the Big 12 wins 3, 4 or even 5 of those games. I left out Florida and Auburn because they’re the middle-of-the-pack SEC teams, so they don’t factor into the best teams showdowns or the worst teams showdowns.
I’ll concede the conferences are about even, but when it comes to the upper echelon teams, I’ll say playing a Big 12 schedule is tougher than playing an SEC schedule, since there are fewer easier teams, and Alabama (for instance) doesn’t have to play themselves. Kind of like the AL East, where the Orioles and the Jays get the worst end of it, because they have to play the Yankees, Red Sox and Rays, but those three teams only have to play two of the three.
I’m not sure how much sense that makes, but I just wanted to throw a baseball analogy in there.
I like how you keep Auburn and Florida out of this part of the discussion.. 🙂
I agree with you in the bottom tier – I think the Big 12 wins three of those bottom matches. I don’t think Kansas beats anyone including their own shadow.
I get what you are saying about the Big 12 schedule, but you have to add in Florida and Auburn back in for the SEC teams. This year, those teams are down, but are still competitive. That could and probably will change next year.
Both conferences are very close, but I still think that the SEC is the better conference, albeit slightly.
Here is hoping that some of the bowl games give us a Big 12/SEC showdown. While not a playoff system, it would make the bowl games interesting.
I was only talking about this year, and I left Florida and Auburn out because there are two more teams in the SEC and those two are the average SEC teams. That’s all. If I left out the best two teams, it would favor my argument. If I left out the worst two, it would favor yours. Who should I have left out?
The worst two.. 🙂