Another week, another position to be discussed. But first, let’s reveal last week’s winners. Three were pretty easy: two legendary first basemen from the first half of the 20th century and one modern player. The fourth earned his spot due to receiving more support from the readers for his great career that was temporarily interrupted by World War II. So, in case you haven’t figured them out yet, or peeked, here are our four selections as the greatest first basemen of all-time:
Jimmie Foxx
Lou Gehrig
Hank Greenberg
Eddie Murray
Second Base is another tough one, a position that includes 18 Hall of Famers and a few others who may well be on their way to induction once their names are on the ballot.
Chas’ Picks
Craig Biggio
5th all-time in career Win Shares for a second baseman with 428, Biggio also averaged 24.9 over a 15-year stretch from 1991-2005 (6th among second basemen). His offensive numbers include 291 HR, 414 SB, 1844 runs (13th all-time), and 3060 hits, and, of course, he’s second all-time in HBP. He also won five Silver Slugger awards, four Gold Gloves, and was a seven-time All Star.
Eddie Collins
The all-time leader in Career Win Shares (572) among second basemen, Collins also averaged 32.2 (30 is considered an MVP-caliber season) over the 15-year period from 1909 to 1923. He accumulated 3315 hits (10th all-time), 1821 runs (15th), 744 SB (7th) and 1300 RBI, as a leadoff hitter, while batting .333 with a .424 OBP over a 25-year career. The pride of Dutchess County (NY) was also one of the greatest World Series performers in history, hitting .328 in 34 games over six fall classics, four of them victories, despite batting only .226 while many of his teammates were throwing the 1919 series.
Rogers Hornsby
Despite the fact that Bill James calls Hornsby one of the four biggest horse’s asses, among players, in major league history—Ty Cobb, Dick Allen and Hal Chase are the others—there’s no denying he’s among the greatest second basemen of all-time. 502 Career Win Shares (3rd among second basemen), including a 15-year run (1916-1930) during which he averaged 31.6, and an OPS+ of 175 qualify him as the SABRmetric darling at his position. Add to that a .358 career batting average (2nd all-time), 301 HR, 1584 RBI, 1579 runs, and seven NL batting titles—including six straight from 1920-1925—and you have a pretty serious lock for Mount Otsego.
Nap Lajoie
One of the greatest players from the turn of the century, and Ty Cobb’s greatest rival, Napoleon compiled 496 Career Win Shares (28.3 per year from 1898-1912), 3242 hits (13th all-time), 1599 RBI and 1504 runs, while batting .338 with a 150 OPS+ over a 21-year career. He won the Triple Crown in the American League’s inaugural year of 1901, and captured the AL’s first four batting titles, adding a fifth in 1910. Lajoie also led the league in on-base percentage twice, slugging percentage four times, doubles five times and RBI three times.
Joe Morgan
Let’s face it, this discussion is really going to be about who is going to join Collins, Hornsby and the greatest modern second baseman, Joe Morgan, on Mount Otsego. The fact that most people consider Morgan to be the greatest ever at the position, over the likes of those two legendary figures, is argument enough. But, his credentials don’t end there. 268 HR, 689 SB, 1650 runs, a .392 OBP, 518 Win Shares (28.3 per year from 1969-1983), 2 MVPs, 5 Gold Gloves, and 10 All-Star selections, and you’ve got a pretty clear cut automatic pick.
Jackie Robinson
We all know what Jack Roosevelt Robinson’s major claim to fame is, but, of course, he was much more than just a guy who was capable of turning the other cheek. Despite losing a few prime major league years to racial segregation, Robinson ranks 5th among second basemen in Win Shares per year with 25.7. In his abbreviated 10-year career, he was a six-time All Star and finished in the top 10 in MVP voting four times, winning the award in 1949. He also won the Rookie of the Year in 1947, led the NL in stolen bases twice and finished in the top five six times, and his uniform number (42) is retired throughout baseball.
Smitty’s Six
Eddie Collins
One of the greatest 2nd basemen to play the game, Collins played from 1906 through 1930 with both the Philadelphia Athletics and the Chicago White Sox. He finished his career with a .333 batting average, over 3,000 hits (3,315 to be exact) and 744 SB. He was the 1914 American League MVP, still holds the major league record for 512 career sacrifice hits, and was the first major leaguer to steal more than 80 bases in a season. He still holds the single-game record for steals with six. Considered by Bill James—from a win share perspective—to be the greatest second baseman of all-time.
Roger Hornsby
The only major leaguer to win the Triple Crown twice. Not enough? How about a career batting average of .358, 2,930 hits and 301 home runs. Hornsby was the NL MVP twice and won 7 batting titles. His batting average in the 1924 season of .424 is the highest in the history of the game. When I say Cardinals, you say Hornsby. Cardinals — ???
Bobby Doerr
Considered by Ted Willliams to be the “Silent Captain of the Boston Red Sox”, Doerr played most of his career overshadowed by Williams, Joe Cronin and Jimmy Foxx. Doerr finished with a career batting average of .288, 223 HR, 2,042 hits and 1,247 RBI, and was also a nine-time American League All Star.
Joe Morgan
When you talk about the best second basemen in the history of the game, Joe Morgan almost immediately comes to mind. Morgan finished with a career batting average of .271, 268 HR, 2,517 hits and 689 SB. Was an integral part of the Big Red Machine in the 1970’s and was the first second basemen to win back-to-back National League MVP crowns. Morgan was also a 10-time All Star and a four-time Gold Glove winner. We won’t hold his career as a broadcaster against him.
Nap Lajoie
The pride and joy of Woonsocket, Rhode Island, Lajoie finished his career with a batting average of .338, 3,242 hits, 1,504 runs and 83 HR. The 83 homers don’t seem like a lot, but considering that Lajoie played from 1896 – 1914, 83 home runs was a lot. Lajoie won the 1901 Triple Crown.
Ryne Sandberg
I can almost see Wally smiling from ear-to-ear. The fact is Sandberg belongs on this list. He finished his career with a .285 batting average, 282 HR, 2,386 hits and 1,061 RBI, and was a 10-time All Star and nine-time Gold Glove winner. Sandberg was the 1984 National League MVP, and his fielding percentage of .989 is a major league record at second base.
What’s your opinion? Please let us know.
In the days when I liked the Yankees, there was only one second baseman we aspired to be; Bobby Richardson. Can’t tell you his stats, but can tell you that he was no insignificant cog in one of the greatest dynasties in professional sports. He was a leader and a winner.
This is like waking up on Christmas morning when I see the next installment of Mount Otsego on Pickin’ Splinters. I love all this talk about the guys who played during my time. Marty Dihigo probably does not rank in the top four. But man he could turn a mean double play. And he saved me a couple of times. I remember throwing into the dirt at second to get the runner. Marty just played it cool and picked the pearl from the ground. Ya know he pitched and played a little outfield too. An all-around steady player. Of course, Jackie gets my vote.
All I have to say is that the positions seem to be getting harder and harder. A couple of names that are missing – Joe Gordon, Roberto Alomar and Charlie Gehringer. Personally, I didn’t think they weren’t in the Top 6 discussion, but both certainly deserve honorable mention.
To think we might be experience a Golden age of second basemen in the game right now. Guys like Ian Kinsler, Dustin Pedroia, and Robinson Cano. Might now crack this side of the mountain, but if their careers continue the way they are – they will be in the discussion.
Rod Carew and Frankie Frisch too. I also think this is a position that is filled with players who don’t necessarily belong in this discussion, but who never really got their due in the Hall of Fame discussion: Lou Whitaker, Bobby Grich, Willie Randolph.
There can not be a Mount Otsego for 2nd basemen that doesn’t include Jackie Robinson. He means too much to the game. Not including him would be like having a Mount for owners and not include Steinbrenner, Cnel Ruppert or Branch Rickey.
Craig Biggio is one of the best leadoff man in the game and Sandberg was the best 2nd basemen for a while. A lot of great names can be thrown, but in my opinion all the picks are unanimous.
Collins
Hornsby
Morgan
Robinson
I have to agree with Gino that those would be my four. Lajoie benefited from playing in the upstart American League, right from its inception, and it was a weaker league at that point. Plus, three guys from that early in the game’s history might be overdoing it, and, obviously, Collins and Hornsby were superior.
Biggio, Sandberg, Alomar, Carew and Gehringer are great, but don’t compare to the top three. They come up a bit short in comparison to Jackie Robinson as well, and he also gets the pioneer/importance to the game boost, as well as the “benefit of the doubt” for the fact that he missed out on playing in the majors until he was 28.
Hard to argue with Collins, Hornsby, Morgan, and Robinson.
Pete makes a great point about the influence a player can have. How do you measure a winner? Sometimes taking stats at face-value can be deceiving. Kinda like doing a time travel experiment with this discussion. Twenty-year olds of the year 2050 might think ARod is a better player than Jeter. Maybe as far as individual talent goes, but not when it comes to being part of a team.
Another way to look at this – when I finally get around to a Mt. Naismith, I’m probably not going to nominate Allen Iverson. He has some great numbers. It just seems that the numbers were at the expense of the team.
Jackie Robinson (see Gino’s comment)
Joe Morgan (see Chas’ commentary)
Hornsby (see Smitty’s commentary, greatest offensive player at the position)
Lajoie/Colins (I can’t decide, don’t know too much about them but it sounds like one of these 19th century players deserves to be up there).
Sandberg over Charlie Gehringer? Was fielding pct. kept in the 1930s? Wouldn’t he be a better defensive second baseman?
Honorable mention: Carlos Baerga 🙂
Carlos Baerga? Are we considering number of trips through the buffet line as criteria for Mt. Otsego?
🙂
I guess so. So no doubt Albert Belle will get my nod for left fielders.
By land, by sea, Bearga!
Hornsby
Collins
Morgan
Sandberg
I’m not including Jackie Robinson because I’m separating his off the field accomplishments from those on the field. When looking only ON THE FIELD, Robinson was obviously very good, but not good enough for top 4 in my book. I’m not saying you have to look at it that way, but I’ve chosen to.
Morgan- Won MVP’s, Big Red Machine
Sandberg- Gold Gloves and fielding percentage, won an MVP
Robinson- One of the most influential and memorable players ever
Hornsby- Has to be on the list
Honorable mention to Collins…guess I just don’t think of him when I think of great 2nd baseman. Definitely some age bias there, but hey Mount Otsego is for everyone to see, not just hardcore baseball fans.
So after getting my Bobby Richardson plug in, my real top 4:
Collins
Hornsby
Morgan
Robinson
Oh man, is Z Dubbz from Chicago too? 😉
Just want to let everyone know, in case anyone is still reading this thread, that we’re going to take a week or two off from this series…mainly because I’m going on vacation.
So, on Friday, I’ll post our final picks for second basemen, but that’s all. Then, we’ll be back (probably two weeks from Friday) with the discussion of shortstops. This is going to be an interesting one. I feel like it’s a little less cut and dried, and subject to controversy, than any of the other positions so far.