With just a week to go until pitchers and catchers report for spring training, and discussions of the economic state of Major League Baseball and its impact on the free agent market growing rather old, it’s time to turn our hot stove focus away from the present and do a little reminiscing. To that end, I thought it would be interesting to name my all-lifetime team. That is, the best players who have played the majority of their careers during my years as a fan of the game.
To be more specific, I consider 1974 to be the year that I became a true baseball fan. So, to be eligible, a player has to have played at least ten years during the period of 1974 to 2008. Since there were a couple of gray areas with regard to positions, I generally considered each player’s entire career at the position at which he played the most games.
As exceptions, I considered Andre Dawson as a center fielder, although he actually played more games in right, due to the relative weakness of the position, but also because he had just as many of his best seasons there. Also, since Pete Rose played four or more seasons at five different positions, and actually didn’t play his first season at his most frequently played position–first base–until his 17th year, I decided to call him the game’s ultimate utility player. So as not to create an exclusive category for that, I thought it would be appropriate to combine it with the otherwise under-represented DHs.
So, with minimal analysis–although don’t believe for a second that a lot didn’t go into these decisions–and starting with the position players in this part one, I’m going to offer my picks for the top three players of my lifetime at each position.
Hall of Famers are in bold print.
Catcher
1. Johnny Bench
2. Carlton Fisk
3. Ivan Rodriguez
Honorable mentions: Mike Piazza, Gary Carter
Bench was easy. The remaining four are probably interchangeable, depending on what factors you choose to emphasize.
First Base
1. Eddie Murray
2. Jeff Bagwell
3. Rod Carew
Honorable mentions: Rafael Palmeiro, Mark McGwire, Tony Perez
Murray is also an obvious pick. Bagwell might not seem as obvious, but to me he is. Carew played more first base than second base in his career.
Second Base
1. Joe Morgan
2. Roberto Alomar
3. Craig Biggio
Honorable mentions: Ryne Sandberg, Jeff Kent
Another no-brainer for the top spot. It might be surprising to some that I consider both Alomar and Biggio better than the slightly over-rated Sandberg.
Shortstop
1. Alex Rodriguez
2. Cal Ripken Jr.
3. Robin Yount
Honorable mentions: Barry Larkin, Derek Jeter, Ozzie Smith
Rodriguez still has 3+ years to go before he’s played more games at third than at short. He’s already surpassed the Hall of Famers Ripken and Yount, and the over-rated Smith.
Third Base
1. Mike Schmidt
2. George Brett
3. Wade Boggs
Honorable mention: Chipper Jones
The presence of three Hall of Famers made these picks pretty easy. Jones has some pretty impressive numbers, though, and may soon make a case for himself.
Left Field
1. Barry Bonds
2. Rickey Henderson
3. Carl Yastrzemski
Honorable mentions: Tim Raines, Jim Rice
Three slam dunk Hall of Famers easily beat out a borderline Hall of Famer and an extremely under-rated player.
Center Field
1. Ken Griffey Jr.
2. Andre Dawson
3. Bernie Williams
Honorable mentions: Kirby Puckett, Jim Edmonds
I’m sure I’ll get some grief for picking Dawson and (especially) Williams ahead of Puckett, but the proof that I didn’t favor Williams just because he was a Yankee is the absence of names like Thurman Munson, Don Mattingly and Graig Nettles above.
Right Field
1. Manny Ramirez
2. Dave Winfield
3. Reggie Jackson
Honorable mentions: Tony Gwynn, Gary Sheffield, Sammy Sosa, Vladimir Guerrero
This was the strongest position of all, and no…your eyes do not deceive you. Ramirez tops the list, over two Yankee greats.
Utility/DH
1. Pete Rose
2. Paul Molitor
3. Frank Thomas
Honorable mentions: Edgar Martinez, Harold Baines
Thomas should eventually become the second DH in the Hall of Fame. Molitor was the first, and Rose–of course–would be there if not for…well, you know.
Bring it on, gentleman. Looking forward to your comments, and stay tuned for part two…the pitchers.
Chas
Great collection of names and I enjoy taking the time to consider all the players I have seen.
Not sure I saw Mark Belanger for a majority of his years, but I have never seen as smooth a fielding shortstop as him. If everyone can forget about Smith’s inability to swing the bat, why isn’t Belanger afforded the same?
Even though I am a fan of the Red Sox, I would put Mattingly on my list of 1bs. I would also include Will Clark.
Graig Nettles earned mentioning. How many runs did he take away with great plays at third?
Chas, great selections. Casey, I certainly don’t disagree with some notable omissions that you mention. But back to Chas’ team: I would reverse the order of your leftfield top 3. Bonds had some great years, but oh that shadow of doubt. Hard for me to see him ranked #1. As to shortstop, I would guess that based on pure ability, A-Rod belongs at the top, but Casey is well aware of my long-espoused A-Rod jinx theory. A-Rod’s history shows him to be a loser and a cancer. Wherever he has gone his teams have gradually deteriorated and then have recovered quickly the year after he left, even if only temporarily. In any team sport, your “goodness” has to be measured in what your teams have accomplished. For all of A-Rod’s natural and abundant abilities, his teams have never won, and they have proven better without him than with him. Being a Yankee hater (the Roger Maris story of yore) I have always rejoiced at the Yankees upping his contract. Every Yankee hater should hope for a lifetime signing of Rodriguez.
Interesting point with the Belanger comparison, Casey. Belanger was actually considerably weaker than Ozzie offensively, didn’t have the stolen bases and *only* won 8 gold gloves to Smith’s 13.
Nettles was my #5 third baseman, but even I have to admit that there’s no comparison to Schmidt, Boggs and Brett, so I didn’t mention him, but maybe I should have.
First base, as always, is a pretty loaded position. Mattingly was great for a handful of years, but just didn’t have the body of work to compare to the greatest of this generation. Will Clark comes closer. He probably just missed honorable mention. 😉
I base my picks on nothing but the players’ individual performances. Regarding the “shadow of doubt”, maybe I should have said that I didn’t consider that factor at all…because I don’t know to what extent to factor it in. I can’t use the team argument either, in my opinion. It’s just too hard to know how much impact one player can have on his entire team. If you start doing that, you’re venturing down the road of advocating for all those Yankee players of years past who may or may not be over-rated because of the teams they played on. Phil Rizzuto is a prime example. All the guys who played with Ruth and Gehrig and are in the Hall may be as well (Tony Lazzeri, Earle Combs, Herb Pennock, Waite Hoyt).
I think that in the discussion of center fielders – Andruw Jones has to be included. Clearly within our lifetime, he has been one of the best.
Chas, good selections, my comments to follow. I will forewarn everyone that I am an Orioles fan, so I have one fault:
Catcher – yes, on Johnny but I do have to mention Lawrence Berra. He may have been a Yankee and in the era before you but I have to mention him.
1st base – I would actually put sweet swinging Rod Carew in front of Eddie. That guy could hit that ball.
2nd base – Yes on Joe Morgan but I have to throw in Bobby Grich and throw out Jeff Kent.
Shortstop – Cal definitely gets my vote over A-rod. Casey is right on Mark “the blade” Belanger.
3rd Base – Mike Schmidt is a lock but I have to mention Brooks Robinson. I know he is out of your era but he was a sweet fielding 3rd baseman.
Left Field – YAZ – hands down. As much as Barry’s power added to his team’s production, Yaz could field that green monster and hit. Last triple crown winner.
Center Field – Griff is on my team and an old timers vote for Paul Blair.
Right Field – Dave Winfield was great and doesn’t create the negative feelings that Manny does.
Utility/DH – If I were to look at strictly hits, it has to go to Pete. But I would like Molitor on my team because he would bring honesty into the locker room.
Pitchers – next
Managers -????
I was thinking of Bobby Grich also. He kinda slips off the east coast radar because of his time with the Halos.
Chas —
Ryne Sandberg over-rated? Power, speed and defense at 2B … how can he not be in your top 3????
And I’m also here to give you grief about Puckett, as you were expecting. He should be #2 in CF.
Seems like you shoe-horned Yaz in there, given this team was ’74 and later. How many years did he play beyond ’75? Plus, I think he’s a bit over-rated. I’d move Ramirez to LF to take Yaz’s spot and put Gwynn or Sosa in RF.
But, hey, it’s YOUR list … 🙂
Smitty: Andruw Jones may have been in the discussion if he didn’t grow old before the age of 30. Also, other than his defense and power, what is there? Mediocre average, struck out twice as often as he walked, didn’t steal bases.
Bunch: Sounds like you made a lot of your picks based on the “who I’d want on my team” factor, which is your prerogative, and an interesting way to look at it. I did my list more as a Hall of Fame of my lifetime kind of thing, looking at a player’s body of work on the field, and nothing else.
Casey: Bobby Grich is definitely one of those unsung guys, I agree. He was a consideration, but I actually like Lou Whitaker even better.
Wally: power, speed and defense at 2B could also describe all of my top 3. Sandberg hit a career .285 with a mediocre OBP, and added a little pop to that. He wasn’t a speed guy per se, but he had a few good years there. Take a look at his career compared to Whitaker’s and tell me why Sandberg was a slam dunk first-ballot guy and Whitaker dropped off the ballot in his first year of eligibility. That’s what I mean by over-rated, and I did say slightly.
Yaz barely made the eligibility requirement. I actually think he’s under-rated and I almost picked him ahead of Rickey. I’ll talk about the center-fielders later…that might be an entire post.
How many gold gloves did Ryno have???
He won 9, and I’ll say again that I said slightly over-rated. Biggio and Alomar are better. No doubt in my mind about that.
I don’t want to downplay the Gold Gloves, but they’re a little tricky. Graig Nettles won 2. Derek Jeter has won 3. Who’s the better fielder at his position? Michael Young won a Gold Glove last year, and his team is making him switch to a less important position. Frank White was dominating the AL 2B Gold Glove scene during Whitaker’s career, yet Lou still managed to win 3. Nettles was blocked by Brooks Robinson and, later, Buddy Bell.
All I’m saying is I don’t hold much weight to the comparison that this guy won more gold gloves than that guy. Anybody who won three or more was an excellent defender. Sandberg is probably a little better than Whitaker and Biggio, but Alomar is at least his equal. Doesn’t add much to the argument for him relative to those guys, does it?
Oh, and one more thing, Wally. Defense wins championships!!! 😉
HELMET STICKER!
Agree! And so does Offense!
Let’s continue the debate on 2B … pulled some numbers on the players mentioned:
Yrs HR RBI SLG SB Field %
Morgan ’63-84 268 1133 .427 689 .981
Alomar ’88-04 210 1134 .443 474 .984
Biggio ’88-07 291 1175 .433 414 .985
Sandberg ‘ 81-97 282 1061 .452 344 .989
Whitaker ’77-95 244 1084 .426 143 .984
Kent ’92-08 377 1518 .500 94 .978
Grich ’70-86 224 864 .424 104 .983
A couple things come to mind. a) throw Kent out of any discussion of all-time second baseman because he was really a 3B or 1B masquerading as a 2B and had a crummy Field % to prove it. b) Sandberg and Alomar only played roughly 16 seasons. Morgan and Biggio 20-21 seasons. Biggio played alot of Catcher and CF too. c) Sandberg quite comfortably has the highest fielding % of this group, at a position (2B) where you want defense first and offense is icing on the cake. d) Ryno has more HRs and a higher SLG % than any other “real 2B” (throw Kent out of the discussion). Must note that he didn’t have a whole lotta help in the Cubs line-up around him, whereas Morgan was sandwiched between Rose and Bench. e) Don’t see any scenario where Whitaker comes out ahead of Sandberg. f) Alomar was fantastic on offense, and won several GG’s. But he doesn’t have quite the power stats or the FP that Ryno has. He was on some fantastic Toronto teams. g) No way Grich comes close to the Top 3.
During my research, I came across this: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/7022-the-best-11-second-basemen-of-all-time
Wow, Wally…that argument blows me away. Sandberg’s power is superior to Alomar’s based on a .452 to .443 slugging percentage edge? And, we all know that fielding percentage is far from the only way to rate someone’s defensive skill. But, even if I give you that Sandberg is a little better defensively than Alomar, you conveniently neglected to compare Alomar’s .300 lifetime average to Sandberg’s .285, Alomar’s .371 OBP to Sandberg’s .344, Alomar’s 504 doubles to Sandberg’s 403, and Alomar’s 474 SB to Sandberg’s 344.
The bottom line is, there are few who would argue any of these guys over Morgan. After that, it’s pretty debatable between Sandberg, Biggio and Alomar. I probably rate Alomar higher than most, because most people (including Bill James) rate Biggio ahead of Alomar. James also rates Biggio ahead of Sandberg. And, of course, he rates Morgan #1. Here’s that list, as of the year 2000 (Alomar had one more very good year after that, Biggio had several more solid seasons):
1. Joe Morgan
2. Eddie “The Pride of Dutchess County” Collins
3. Rogers Hornsby
4. Jackie Robinson
5. Craig Biggio
6. Nap Lajoie
7. Ryne Sandberg
8. Charlie Gehringer
9. Rod Carew
10. Roberto Alomar
Oh yeah, and we’re talking about the greatest players of a generation, so this “defense first and offense is icing on the cake” statement is a tad ridiculous, especially considering all of the guys we’re talking about (the top 4) won four or more gold gloves, and all were good offensively. So, we’re already in “icing on the cake” territory. Should we throw Manny Trillo into the discussion?
Wally, you amaze me! Trying to overwhelm Chas with stats? Like trying to overwhelm Shaq with size or Manute Bol with height. Good luck! BTW, I say throw Manny Trillo in the mix – what the heck!
Manny Trillo was a pretty sweet fielder. He also could bunt with the best of them. 🙂
Well, if defense wins championships and championships is the criteria for greatness, then Manny is in for sure! Defense and small ball; doesn’t get any better than that. Who even needs pitching with that combo. Give me Manny Trillo 8 times.
If Manny Trillo – how about Omar Vizquel??
Dee-fense, Dee-fense!
I need to admit my tongue was in my cheek when I made the Manny Trillo comment. He was a slick fielder…nothing more than that. My goodness if Trillo and Belanger played on the same team they would need to win every game by 1-0.
Vizquel is closer to Ozzie Smith than he is to Trillo. Unfortunately for him, he’s just as under-rated as the Oz is over-rated, so he doesn’t stand much of a chance…I don’t think.
Casey, I did not know tongue-in-cheek was allowed on “the bench”.
Sorry Chas & bench … you’re gonna have to indulge me a little bit longer on this debate. Here’s why: Up-the-middle defense is so important in baseball that it overrides offense at those positions. If I’m designing a ballclub, I gotta have my middle infielders be great defenders first and foremost. Not only do they have to make all the basic plays, but I want them to have great range and get to balls that most people cannot reach. They have to turn the double play, make relay throws from the OF and cover a great amount of territory. Ryne Sandberg is without question the best fielding 2-bagger I ever saw and probably one of the top 5 fielders I ever saw. And I’ve seen a lot of baseball since I “became a fan” in 1970. Ryne Sandberg and maybe Alomar probably had 500 chances on balls that Jeff Kent could never even get to.
This is where my personal rating value system is different than yours or other people’s. But ask any baseball manager what he wants at 2B and it’s defense, defense, defense, okay throw in some offense. I can appreciate that and it forms my opinion here. Sandberg was the best fielding 2B I ever saw and I believe the stats — FP, chances/assists, etc — will support me. Not as quite as strong offensively as Morgan … all I’m saying is the Ryno is in my Top 3 without question.
Now if we’re talking the corners, or LF/RF, I will skew more toward valuing offense.