First off, let me start by saying I am out to create trouble. Not bad trouble – if there is such a thing – but in the spirit of the upcoming presidential election I want to start a debate. At first I tried to think about what I could get everyone started on… Hmmm Yankees/Red Sox? Nah, just doesn’t have the fire behind it this year. The upcoming NFL season? Nah, that is next week’s column. Well after getting my fix of the Summer Olympics that is guaranteed to last me 4 years, I find had it – What defines an athlete.
So what is an athlete? Better yet what defines a superior athlete? The dictionary defines an athlete as ” a person trained or gifted in exercises or contests involving physical agility, stamina, or strength; a participant in a sport, exercise or game requiring physical skill.”
Well that defines just about every person that has laced up a pair of cleats/sneakers, stepped to the plate, crouched at the starting line, hit a drive 300 yards, run 26 miles in 2 hours, or swam the 100m breast stroke in 50 seconds.
So what makes an athlete superior to another? Our opinion on the sport? The ability to perform at a high level in not one, but two sports? Or does just being great in one sport draw the line?
Does throwing a 50 yd. strike to another player in stride make one better than a guy swimming against the best athletes the world has to offer and then doing it again 40 minutes later against a totally different group of swimmers?
Does being able to dunk a basketball, hit a jumper consistently from 30 feet make an athlete superior than someone who can hit a golf ball where they want to, whenever they want to, all along walking up to 7 miles a day on a golf course?
I think that with any discussion about athletes, you have to start with Jim Thorpe. Personally, I think he is front and center what discussing what an athlete is. No other athlete can claim to be an Olympic champion, and a professional football, basketball and baseball player. But all supposed athletes aren’t Jim Thorpe. So where does the line start and where does it end?
Let’s hear from you….
I think it really is a mental fortitude and attitude on life that defines a great athlete
Smitty — I’ll give you a baseball fan’s perspective on what a great athlete is … and a barometer for measuring baseball players as athletes. Ever hear of a “5 Tool Player” or a “5 star player”? This is a player who can do the following well: run, throw, catch/field, hit for avg, and hit for power. So what images come to mind (referring to some players in their prime)?
— Willie Mays
— Mickey Mantle
— Hank Aaron
— Ken Griffey Jr.
— Barry Bonds
— Derek Jeter
— Ryne Sandburg
— Ricky Henderson (OK … a weak arm)
I consider these guys “great athletes”. There are several other 5 tool players for sure, plus there are several 4 tool players who I’d also consider great athletes (Jackie Robinson, Robin Yount, Torri Hunter, Ozzie Smith). Generally, it’s the “ability to do it all … and do it well”. In my humble opinion, I’ll take a 5 Star baseball player and stack him up against athletes in any other sport, let them train for a few weeks, and they’ll be quite competitive in any endeavor … possibly superior. I’ll bet they’ll actually be more successful than many of the NBA players, but it would be close.
Remember, MJ couldn’t come close to hitting good pitching … and his throwing arm was rather pedestrian 🙂
I’d like to see any of those guys on skates.
So Wally – since John Kruk was pretty decent in all of those phases in baseball – does that mean he is a better athlete then a Michael Jordan, or a Wayne Gretzky or a Michael Phelps?
I agree with Julie in that mental fortitude is huge with any great athlete. Just look at those that have failed, but continued to work and then become great.
In some regards I think golf requires its athletes to be the mentally toughest of any sport. Every tournament is like playing in a playoff series in any other sport. You win or your lose and you lose out on money. Each shot is scrutinized and each shot counts. Someone can foul off a ball or drop a pass. But a golfer screws up a shot, up a stroke with 2 holes to play? He is screwed.
And if he fails and say blows the Masters or the British Open? He doesn’t get 3 months to let it die down or let the burn fade.. Nah, they are on to another golf course and another go at winning the prize.
Can’t resist: Soccer players do it for 45 minutes- twice!
sorry…
Yeah – and with their feet. Not the easiest of skills to master.
There’s obviously no real answer. Agility/coordination to me is of utmost importance, which is why I see where Wally is coming from. Baseball players are severely disadvantaged in their sport in different scenarios. I have to say it is hard not to agree that a lot of baseball players would translate quicker to another sport.
I think an athlete has to be transcendent in some way, which may allow the time period to affect what we see as a truly “great” athlete. Say what you want about John Elway (baseball), Cal Ripken (basketball), and LeBron James (an all state tight end in HS), but it’s all hypothetical because they stuck to one sport. So I give more credit to Bo Jackson because he actually succeeded as a two sport athlete.
I don’t look at guys like Deion Sanders or the influx of track athletes into the NFL in the same way because of points made by Wally – they’re too one dimensional in one of the sports.
I’m glad Muels finally chimed in because I was afraid to. I’m a high school coach (for only the past four years though) and the best athletes in the school – in my opinon – play at least one of these two sports: baseball and soccer. And this is for both girls and boys. There are many who excel in at least one other sport and some who should be but choose to concentrate on one.
Smitty — Now you’re gonna challenge my thesis with John Kruk????? Kruk was a “2 Tool Player” … he could field a little bit and hit for a decent average. That’s about it. He was nowhere near “decent in all phases of the sport.” When they were taking the team photo for great athetes in baseball, he was either behind the camera snapping the shot or at the concession stand chomping on a hotdog.
Did I say all MLB baseball players are great athletes? Nope. Did I say you have to be a great athlete to make it in MLB? Nope. Was I trying to say that baseball’s best athletes are pretty damned good and could compete on any stage? Yep … that’s pretty much it.
Casey — The hockey shot was weak. Take anyone right out of the womb and put ’em on skates like they do in Canada … they’ll be able to skate very well 90% of the time. Hockey’s got some great athletes, but I wouldn’t say it’s necessarily because of their skating ability. Now give me an NHLer who’s both quick on the skates and a great playmaker and/or scorer … then we’re probably looking at a “great athlete”. The hand-eye coordination and arm/hand strength required to be a great hockey player is huge. Plus most of them are nails tough … which I admire.
Soccer? Don’t get me started. Wonderful game for little kids cuz it really doesn’t take much thought … or they have a silly rule (offsides!) to legislate against anyone showing spurts of athleticism. There’s defintely some great athletes in soccer … but I bet most of ’em can’t catch a ball .. or if they do, then they probably throw like girls 🙂
Soccer doesn’t take much thought? Oh boy! Muels, Rey, and Smitty – I hope you are not going to allow that comment to go by the wayside. 🙂
Wally you were doing so well. Soccer players actually have to think WHILE the game is moving instead of stepping out of the box or off the mound.
While we’re at it, I would like to see how the best athletes in sports do as a goalie in soccer. The net minder catches, throws, has to play with his feet, etc.
The hockey shot – seriously what other sport do you have to re-learn the basic way you move from point A to Point B. And then there’s that little thing of stopping on skates. Oh yeah those boards make for a nice cushion when you lose your edge and do a face plant. Not to mention the increase in speed and the decreased time for decision making.
I am not saying hockey players, soccer players, or anybody are the best athletes. Each sport has its defining elements. It is easy to put baseball in front of the rest because of MJ’s failure and Deion was so weak at the plate. Yeah – hitting a baseball is the most difficult thing to do in sports, but it is also one skill that we, as a culture, have devised the most opportunities for repetition. There sure are a lot of batting cages out there that give everybody a chance to develop the skill. During a game a DH can go under the stadium and take batting practice and come pretty close to simulating the speed thrown by the pitcher. Not as easy to get reps shooting hoops with a hand in the face, at game speed, in transition, after playing defense. Same could be said for a wide receiver in football or many others.
Help me here – how many professional baseball players have had success in other professional sports? We have seen others not do as well in baseball, but how many baseball players have succeeded in other sports.
Soccer doesn’t take much thought? Neither does hockey. As long as you can skate, you just slap your stick at a puck towards the net. Neither does football. Just hit the guy in front of you, tackle the guy with the ball, or run when you get it towards your end zone. In such a discussion that involves ALL athletes, you have to eliminate personal bias, especially sports you seem to think are inferior according to American standards.
Ok – let’s involve a sport we probably all know little about: wrestling. Is that just a bunch of queers in tights touching each other? Maybe boxing, karate, jui-jitsu for all I care. Because these aren’t featured on Sportscenter doesn’t discount them as athletes. And I’d love to hear an argument against these sports’ athletes. They have to continue to perform at a high level as they experience fatigue beyond that of our beloved baseball, football, hockey and basketball.
And yes, some sports do take less thought/athleticism/strength than others, but I don’t think it was the point to determine the best or most difficult sport. Don’t be afraid to think outside of your own little sports world. And don’t scorn another just because it isn’t exactly your cup of tea.
Helmet sticker!
I respect the abilities of any professional athlete, male or female. I struggle to bash other sports just because I lack experience in them. I am not going to spend time on this enjoyable clipboard trying to convince somebody about the virtues of soccer…99% of those who bash soccer have never spent more than 30 seconds watching or playing it. Instead of blasting what you don’t know, maybe try it, or just leave it alone…
Casey saved me from raising the challenge of the soccer goalkeeper- too close to that arguement…
I must be included in the 1% who have spent countless hours watching soccer over the past 9 years at various levels. My opinions are well-founded in time committed to watching. (I’ll never get that back). Soccer is a great game for raising the fitness levels in kids given the non-stop clock and the endless running. The players can be quite skilled …with their feet … and some with their heads. Soccer goalies are basically the most normal of the athletes, since they can also use their hands. Here’s my summary: The game is ruined by an archaic offsides rule, which inhibits basic aggression, athleticism … and scoring. And at the higher levels, the flopping is embarrassing. The sight of magnificent athletes sprinting downfield, only to be touched by another player, and then falling to the ground as if shot by a sniper with a high caliber weapon is really what sports fans yearn for. Just cannot get enough soccer! I just love seeing play stopped because the offense has outraced the defense down the field …. or because David Wussam just flopped like a rag doll to draw the foul that nobody saw. With any luck, the game ended on PKs … probably 1-0. How exciting!
Casey —
MLB players have succeeded in several other sports at fairly high levels. Here are just a few examples: Jackie Robinson (football and track); Rick Reed & Tim Stoddard (basketball), Dave Winfield (drafted by 3 professional leagues), Rick Rhoden (golf), Kenny Lofton (basketball), Bo Jackson (football), Danny Ainge (hoops), Deon Sanders and Brian Jordan (NFL). Heck … throw in Jeff Samardijzia … he could have played WR in the NFL.
Actually the offsides rule in soccer – as frustrating as it may be – encourages athleticism. The rule is when an offensive player strikes the ball toward the opposing end all teammates must have at least one defender and the goalie between them and the goal line. Key part of the rule is ‘when the ball is struck’. Therefore it becomes a test of speed, agility, and skill to see who will get the ball. Without the rule players could cherry pick – a not-so-athletic alternative.
I dislike diving in soccer as much as I dislike how so basketball players have to argue so many calls. How the strike zone can be used as a science experiment because it is amoeba-like. How batters have to step out of the box after so many pitches. How there can be a holding call on every play in football. How hockey players have to clutch and grab during so many stoppages of play. Each game has its inherent downfall. To isolate one because it is foreign seems a little unfair.
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