****Remember, try this without research. Release your inner Jim Joyce and show us your stream of consciousness as you decipher the answer. Add to that the teachings of Myagi: patience. If you don’t get the answer right away, give your brain a chance to work if for no other reason than to stay in the discussion. You may not have THE answer, but you might prompt another reader by asking the right question.
By Chas
I was involved in one of the most famous trades in baseball history. It was a one-for-one trade, me-for-him, no one else involved. Unfortunately, I was traded for a player who was extremely popular, and, in retrospect, my new team got the short end of the deal.
At the time of the trade, I was 29 years old and coming off the third top ten MVP finish of my career, and perhaps my best year of all of them. My counterpart was almost three years younger and had just finished in the top five in MVP voting for the second consecutive year.
Fans in my new city weren’t happy with the trade, to which my new GM replied, “What’s all the fuss about? All I did was trade hamburger for steak.” That didn’t turn out to be the case. I was traded away again a year later.
To put the one-sidedness of the trade in perspective, using one of those newfangled stats, I produced a total of 5 wins above replacement (WAR) for the remainder of my career. My counterpart: 27.5 WAR.
Fans of that Great Lakes region team still cite the trade as the primary reason for their futility in the years since. Not to be outdone by that team in New England, they even call it a curse.
I had a pretty good career, though. I knocked out over 2000 hits, and batted over .300 for my 15 years in the bigs. I was also name to 8 All-Star teams (7 of them prior to that ill-fated trade) and stuck around for 15 years on the BBWAA’s Hall of Fame ballot, peaking at just under 40% of the vote.
I even had some success in a very brief managerial career. As a rookie manager, I took over my hometown team early in the year and led them to the only World Series appearance in their history. We lost in seven games, but I took home Manager of the Year honors for my efforts.
The following season, I was fired after my team missed the playoffs, although we finished a respectable 12 games above .500.
I never managed again. Five years later, I died, just two months past my 57th birthday.
Who Am I?
Hamburger for steak? I remember that comment. Was it current when I heard/read it? Or did I read it in a book? Hmmmm…..
A team with only one WS appearance?
Have the Brewers only had one WS appearance? Who managed the Brew Crew?
This is a tough one, Chas. I started focusing on the trade but realized that’s not getting me anywhere. It’s not the infamous Brock for Broglio trade that haunted the Cubs for decades. I’m hittin’ the showers and will give this some more thought. Might focus on the managerial clues you’ve given. “He managed this team to it’s only World Series appearance in their history … and they lost”. That should get me somewhere. Be back later.
If it is Great Lakes region – we have Cleveland, Chicago, Minnesota, Cincy??
Or Milwaukee.
Wait. Was the WS appearance with a team from the great Lakes?
No they were ones that blame the trade for their team’s demise.
Well if it was Milwaukee – they have gone to the World Series only once back in the 80s.. I believe Harvey Kuenn was the manager of Cecil Cooper, Robin Yount, Rollie Fingers, Paul Molitor and co..
Anyone know where Harvey Kuenn was born??
Man, I am starting to remember who was on that Brewers team – Ben Oglive.. Wasn’t Pete Vukovich on that team as well? Not sure of the spelling.
But that is only Great Lakes team that has been to the World Series once – even the Cubs have been there twice.. 🙂
Or, is he alive or dead?
Gorman Thomas. Sal Bando. Ted Simmons. Larry Soreneson?
Okay.. off to work… Will try to check in later.
Have the Astros ever been to the WS?
Back from the showers. What a flurry of activity!! I think you guys are on the right track. I came out of the showers yelling “He managed the Brewers in ’82!” Those were “Harvey’s Wallbangers”. Milwaukee is the only team I could think of that lost it’s only WS appearance in 7 games. (Casey, The Astros were swept in ’05 by the WHITE SOX :). Other teams I thought of losing their only WS appearance are the Rays and of course the Rangers last year. I thought maybe it coulda been San Diego, but they’ve lost 2 WS and of course are not Greak Lakes region.
Back to Milwaukee. Harvey Kuenn (spelling?) was the manager in ’82. I do recall hearing/reading that he as a very good outfielder in his playing days… mostly with Detroit Tigers … but this was well before my time as a fan. I have no idea who he might’ve been traded for and what this curse is all about.
All I know is that I watched every pitch of the ’82 Suds Series from my college dorm with a bunch of guys from Mizzou and Wisconsin and this Brewers team has stuck in my memory like glue. Harvey Kuenn!
The Pale Hose swept the Astros in ’05 – of course. I was making that one more difficult than it needed to be.
Harvey’s Wallbangers it is! Smitty called that one early. Nice.
The hamburger for steak reference must have been used elsewhere because I obviously do not remember that trade.
The hometown team and the Great Lakes region team are different teams.
Speaking of the ’82 BrewCrew and thinking about our conversation yesterday, I’m pretty sure Rollie Fingers won a Cy Young award (reliever), but did he also possibly win an MVP Award that same season??
If it truly is Harvey Kuenn, a major assist to Casey. Once he said Milwaukee that got me going on that 80s Brewers team. Very fitting considering they are the hottest team in baseball right now.
Why hasn’t anyone mentioned Robin Yount and Paul Molitor? Cecil Cooper and Jimmy Gantner? Larry Hisle and Don Money? Don Sutton and Moose Haas?
Certainly was a team with character(s) …. “Stormin’ Gorman” Thomas … one of the great nicknames.
Smitty mentioned Yount and Molitor in his 7:41am comment.
Wally: you were in college in ’82? Man, you’re older than I thought. Who’s older, you or Crossword Pete? 😉
My bad … gettin’ so “old” the eyes are failin’. 🙂
For the record, that was my freshman year. I believe Pete is significantly “more experienced” than I am … I’m led to believe his college years were squarely in the ’70s based on his recollection of ND-related factoids during that time. I’m sure he’ll get on here to confirm or deny.
So, maybe Pete knows a little more about this “famous” trade that all the other “youngins” on this site seem to know nothing about. 🙂
That actually makes you only three years older than I am, btw. I got to see the Don Denkinger blown call followed by the Game 7 Cardinals meltdown (1985) from the dorm room my freshman year.
I won’t mention the second World Series I watched from the college dorms. 😉
I remember the Denkinger mess up as well … and again watching in the dorm. Wasn’t Jorge Orta in the middle of that? (He played for the White Sox for several years before).
Oh … you must be talking about the Boston meltdown (Buckner!) vs the Mets. Oops … sorry 🙂
Yeah, Orta was the hitter/runner. Todd Worrell was covering first base. Who was the first baseman? Jack Clark?
Yes … Jack Clark was the 1B for St Louis in the WS.
Now, see, if the Cardinals had Buckner playing first instead, Deckinger never woulda blown the call because the ball would’ve gone through Billy’s legs and there would be no play at first 🙂
Harvey Kuenn is the correct answer. Great job by Smitty answering that one so quickly, especially since Wally called this a tough one. As Smitty acknowledged, great assist by Casey throwing Milwaukee into the mix.
You guys did seem to confuse the Great Lakes clue with the team he managed. I never said he managed a Great Lakes team, although he did. Kuenn was traded, following the 1959 season, from Detroit to Cleveland (the Great Lakes team) for Rocky Colavito. It was a very unpopular trade in Cleveland, and rightfully so. Colavito did a lot more for Detroit than Kuenn did for his new club. Indians fans refer to the aftermath of the trade as “The Curse of Rocky Colavito.” In fact, here’s that perspective from a long-time Indians fan: https://ballcapsblog.com/2011/08/10/my-1966-rock-colavito-baseball-card/
The trade was so famous because it was the only time in baseball history that a reigning batting champ (Kuenn) was traded for a reigning home run king (Colavito). I thought about using that as a clue, but I thought that might have given it away.
Fun as always guys.
Chas … funny story from that Indians fan. I can identify … I’m pretty sure I cried the day Dick Allen retired from baseball (temporarily). More accurately, he quit the White Sox like the day before I was going to the game with my dad in 1974. How could HE do THAT to me?!?!? (He was still sorta in the prime of his career).
Allen was my original baseball hero and probably the most naturally gifted player I’ve ever seen. If he wasn’t such a bull-headed prima-donna of sorts, he woulda had longer than a 13-14 year career and been a cinch to make the HoF. I’ve never seen anyone else hit clothesline rockets into the bleacher seats like Allen did … and he did it when pitching was dominant.
I gotta think a list of the “worst, most one-sided trades” in baseball history must include the Cubs trading a young Lou Brock to St Louis for what would be a soon-to-be washed up pitcher, Ernie Broglio, in 1964. Typical Cubs. Unbelievably bad. Broglio was out of baseball by 1966 and of course Brock would help the Cardinals to a couple World Series on his way to a Hall of Fame career and notoriety as one of the best base stealers in history.
What if Brock was with the Cubs instead of the Cards in the late ’60s? Would he have helped that “almost great” Cub team of ’69 actually win the pennant instead of gagging it away to the Miracle Mets? Nope. The Cubs were gonna find a way to blow it no matter what … Curse of the billy goat.
I am “significantly more experienced” than Wally. By 1982 I was already unable to remember my college years. That was nearly my 10th year reunion for ND. The Colavito for Keunn trade was certainly one of which I was aware at the time, but it did not come to mind as I looked at this WAI. I was still a Yankee fan in 1959 and Yankee fans were thrilled that the other teams in the AL were swapping good players because it didn’t strike us as a plan that would work. Had Keunn continued to produce for the Tigers and stayed together with guys like Norm Cash and Al Kaline, the Tigers might have been serious contenders for the Yankees’ seat at the top. Colavito was a Yankee killer with the Indians, but not so with the Tigers. Was 1959 about the last year in which one-for-one trades of top players was done? I figured this trade had to be from sometime in that era. I think the 60s saw an almost exclusive use of multiple player deals.
Awesome “Who Am I” and fun comments. Enjoyed this visit very much.
Thanks for sharing your experienced perspective on guys involved in that trade, Pete.
Thanks for stopping by, William…or, as Casey would say “Welcome to the Pine!” Feel free to participate in the future.
Great idea. I’ll be coming back for these puzzlers each week. And thanks for the link!